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Could DeWitt just be setting the team up for a work stoppage in the next Labor negotiations? If not, it seems that the team will need to sign at least 1 starting pitcher and start to upgrade the lineup.
What is Mo’s last official day on the job?
Or put it another way, on what day does Mo no longer have a say in running the St. Louis Cardinals?
You would assume up until the last day of the World Series or right before QO are handed out. Usually the league doesn’t want a ton of news during its playoffs and Marquis series and celebration after.
At this point it doesn’t matter much. He’s still in charge and the face of the FO. I mean the guy was on ESPN last night with Ravich and Eduardo answeing questions
Don’t worry folks. He’ll be gone soon enough. You can pop you bottle of cheap sparkling or open that nice craft beer when the announcement is official. You can celebrate his accomplishments and count down the days when he’s in the Cardinals HOF. Lolf
There is no last day announced. It could be September, October, November, December, January, or February. All we know is by the time Spring training starts, Bloom is in charge.
But my guess would be that the transition probably happens in October or November ahead of the Winter Meetings.
Mo is just another piece in the demo process. When the season is over, so is he and his FA’s. Or, he could DFA himself any time now.
Do you really think the Cards are trying to drive revenue down to become a revenue sharing participant? If so, what makes you think that?
Seems to me that if that was the plan, they would have gone into full teardown mode.
Yes. DeWitt has always been about maximizing profits. And he and Mozeliak have both stated that when they came up with their long-term strategy, it was how they best thought they could maximize team competitiveness and profits.
In terms of why I think that – they’ve already started lowering payrolls, saying what worked for them in the past isn’t working. My eyes popped when I saw the welfare recipients were now receiving $70 million, I am sure DeWitt’s did also. Let’s think about this. He can run a $170 million payroll, get $0 revenue sharing from MLB, and lose competitive balance picks because he runs a “successful” franchise. Or, he can take payroll below $100 million, cry poor, receive $70 million in welfare, and keep his competitive balance picks. If you were an owner, and this was your primary source of income, what would you do?
They tried a selloff. They were blocked by their NTC’s. So, now they have a three year tear-down instead of a one year tear-down.
I wonder what his salary is for this last hurrah? At the onset of his final contract I recall him quoted as saying that he’d “work tirelessly to place a successful product on the field.” I’m not entirely sure what “tirelessly” means. Perhaps it means that he’ll keep working after the wheels have fallen off…In any case, the Cardinals have looked pretty tired for the last 3 seasons. Maybe they’ll get some rest after Johnny says farewll and rides off into double talk land…
Could DeWitt just be setting the team up for a work stoppage in the next Labor negotiations? If not, it seems that the team will need to sign at least 1 starting pitcher and start to upgrade the lineup.
Baseball players don’t get paid during work stoppages, so it really doesn’t matter.
I guess you can say he needs to pair down expenses because revenues will take awhile to ramp back up once the labor stoppage is over, but if owners are really intent on crating a cap, the Cardinals are nowhere near whatever it is going to be.
Willie Jr. has too much pride regarding his financial prowess and the ability of his holding companies to generate enormous profits to ever “cry poor.” He has an image to uphold, so he’d never dare to tarnish that image by creating the impression that he’s someone who would accept a handout…Instead, what he’ll probably do is threaten to move the team to Knoxville or Paducah if Cardinal nation doesn’t shape up and start clicking the turnstiles and agree to taxpayer funded renovations to his ballpark…Haha!
No pay for players is paid during a lockout except deferrals or sign-on bonuses. Same as a strike. However, with both, sometimes when an agreement is reached it involves some kind of back wages.
We always had a strike fund which was maintained by monthly dues paid by members of the local. In the event of a strike, those funds were paid out to provide financial assistance to striking members of the local. And get this…The payments are tax free because the money is considered to be a gift…Haha!
I never suggested that the Cardinals would immediately reinvest the NTC savings into payroll additions. What I said is the the NTC’s are hindering their rebuild. The key word being theirs, not mine. I want the team to both win and rebuild.
Besides, part of the rebuild is runway. Runway is about giving younger players playing time but that is hard to do when they are blocked by a NTC or by a redundant roster.
Arenado is without a doubt blocking younger players. Gorman or Saggese could have played everyday this season if it were not for Arenado. Same goes for 2026 and 2027.
Contreras is blocking younger players in my opinion. Burleson and/or Herrera could play everyday at 1B at a much cheaper cost. Same goes for 2026, 2027, and maybe 2028.
Gray is not blocking anyone because we are desperate for starters but a $35M salary in 2026 is a big salary for a rebuilding team. I do hope they keep him around though.
The Cardinals are not going to sign any expensive FA’s this winter so any chance of improving the rotation is going to have to come from trades. Assuming the NTC’s don’t waive their rights then we will have to trade someone like Donovan, Burly, Noot, Crooks, Bernal or some combo of this group. They all have some trade value whereas Gorman and Walker probably do not. Herrera and Winn would be on my untouchable list unless absolutely blown away by a trade proposal.
Bill kept referencing “cycles” at WWU. I applied that as, when the farm is up, the budget will be too.
But until the farm to does improve drastially, do we get a slow walk down of the budget, to preserve some competitiveness and attendance, until the farm forces the budget cycle up?
gscottar said:
What I said is the the NTC’s are hindering their rebuild. The key word being theirs, not mine. I want the team to both win and rebuild.
Thanks for clarifying. I didn’t see that exact quote, but for this discussion I will take it at face value. I don’t believe it, though. I think what they meant to say is the contracts are hindering their balance sheet.
At one position, third base, yes, younger players were blocked. At first, I am not sold that Burly needs more playing time to develop. He is what he is.
And the suggestion that Burly might provide similar production at lower cost than Contreras only matters if the savings are used elsewhere to make the team better. There is no indication of this, however. So my assumption is that any savings would primarily benefit ownership and I would keep the more proven player (Contreras) as a result.
But I am being repetitive, so I will stop here.
I think both of you are right from your own point of view. If Arenado, Gray, and Contreras weren’t there, ownership would likely reinvest multiple millions back in the team that it isn’t willing to do with those contracts there today. However, not all that money is likely to be reinvested in the team. It just comes down to a question of how much.
And to Brian’s point, Contreras isn’t really blocking Burleson or Herrera. They still play every day. However, he is causing them to play out of position or at DH, which does block better defense or someone who doesn’t hit as well. I don’t really care at all about getting a lesser bat at DH but I do care some about having a worse outfield defense.
I’m really hoping the team trades from what they have plenty of for what they desperately need this offseason. To me, that means trading away some combination of Burleson, Herrera, Bernal, Saggese, or Crooks for starting pitching. Walker and Gorman don’t have enough value. Winn and Scott aren’t going anywhere partly because they don’t have a replacement ready. The NTC’s don’t want to leave. Nootbaar could be traded but there also isn’t a good replacement for him right now. Koperniak or Church are options for Nootbaar but they’re extremely unproven. Donovan is likely to be kept as a team leader.
Wetherholt since August 1: .231 BA and .731 OPS. That is about 1/3 of his time in AAA. He may need a couple of months, at least, at AAA next year.
GS…you act like what you are saying is fact and it is not It is just your opinion.
Most statements on this board are opinions are they not? When you used to repeatedly say that the Cardinals would be dumb to trade Tommy Edman that was your opinion even though not everyone agreed with it.
Donovan has tremendous trade value. Baseball Trade Values has him third highest in the organization. I would hate to trade him but he would fetch a good pitcher and we could use Gorman or perhaps Wetherholt at 2B next year if need be.
Here are top 20 trade values in the Cardinal organization according to BTV:
1. JJ Wetherholt 54.8
2. Mason Wynn 52.6
3. Brendan Donovan 35.5
4. Ivan Herrera 28.5
5. Matthew Liberatore 23.6
6. Michael McGreevy 23.4
7. Liam Doyle 22.9
8. Quinn Mathews 20.8
9. Lars Nootbaar 19.0
10. Alec Burleson 16.2
11. Andre Pallante 15.8
12. Rainiel Rodriguez 13.5
13. Victor Scott 13.4
14. Jimmy Crooks 12.2
15. Yairo Padilla 11.3
16. Leonardo Bernal 10.2
17. Nolan Gorman 9.3
18. Thomas Saggese 8.6
19. Jesus Baez 8.2
20. Ryan Mitchell 8.2I have no idea what these trade value appraisals are based on but how in the heck can the guy they call J.J. be perched atop the list ahead of Winn, Donovan and Herrera? Am I to believe that he would bring a more lucrative return depite never having played a solitary game of baseball in the Big Leagues? If so, my guess would be that this list was a joint effort which was compiled by Bernie Madoff and Kenneth Lay…
They are all fictitious values based on one organization’s perspective 1TD. But in this case, I agree with them that Wetherholt’s value is higher than Donovan because Donovan only has 2+ years left and his contract is going up. Wetherholt has numerous years of control with multiple years being cheap control. It doesn’t mean Wetherholt will be better than Donovan is today. If they thought he was as good as Donovan is today, that valuation would be like $250 million rather than $55 million.
Okay, I get that angle, Jnevel. Shame on me for focusing on the concept of baseball talent. I had entirely overlooked that it’s all based on the ol’ train ridin’ greenback dollar bill…Haha!
Its becoming clear that Scott2 is a AAAA player. His last two months have been not quite stellar. .162 in July and .130 in August ain’t gonna make it for the rebuild. His numbers have trended down every month. Siani was sent to AAA because he couldn’t hit either, but his numbers were better than SII’s.
Moving him for a potential better OF bat would be the thing to do.
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