December 28, 2020 at 1:01 pm #150634
All of them, plus McGwire came from outside the Cardinals organization. The Cards have a history of stocking the most effective position players from outside. Ergo, outside of Carlson and Gorman, they may have to start doing again in the near future.December 28, 2020 at 1:03 pm #150635
Mspaid, they’re all players that came from outside the organization. Bccran is trying to make a point that falls on deaf ears when you realize that many of the best Cardinals of the most recent era (including Albert, Yadi, and Matt Carpenter) came from within.December 28, 2020 at 2:40 pm #150639
Great point, 25. Of course both Yadi and Albert came into the system almost 20 years ago, and Carp came in over 10 years ago. Outside of that……December 28, 2020 at 3:18 pm #150640
…and Dejong, Wong, Pham, Piscotty, Craig etc etc etc…
One size does not fit all. Some good players come from within, some externally.December 28, 2020 at 4:12 pm #150642Nigel TParticipantPaid - Three Months
They were all produced by other minor league systems then acquired by St. LouisDecember 28, 2020 at 4:12 pm #150643
But the true impact players have come from outside. And as Brian says, he doesn’t see any true impact position players coming through our system. So maybe we’re stuck for awhile with Goldilocks and the 3 bares.December 28, 2020 at 4:24 pm #150647
But the true impact players have come from outside.
Uh, no. In the last 20 years, in how many could you say the Cards best position player came from outside?
So that’s 1 of 20 years (the only partial one) where the consensus best position player was an outside acquisition. Maybe you can argue 2019 for Goldy but he did not have a good year. How’s that for “impact”…?December 28, 2020 at 5:30 pm #150650mspaidParticipantFree
Thanks and I agree. I’ve been saying it for years; get the talent from the outside but they keep trying to do it cheaply from within and you see the results. The last two Cardinal WS MVP’s came from the outside. Now, 2021 is a loss but going into the winter of 2021-22 the payroll needs to be 200 million. Or, they can continue with their present business model and be perpetually mediocre.December 28, 2020 at 8:50 pm #150657
Uh, the best high end position talent over the past 20 years has for sure been from outside. Since Albert and Yadi come on board almost 20 years ago, how many high end players have some through the system besides Carpenter? Three that I can think of – and all had issues that caused them not to be career Cardinals – Drew (health), Rasmus (attitude), and of course sadly OT.December 28, 2020 at 9:11 pm #150658
I just listed a bunch of them.
You listed Edmonds, Rolen and Holliday, all great players and all under the old Jocketty way of using prospects to acquire stars, apart from considering the health of the system. Berkman was no longer great when he came here, Beltran was worth 2.4 WAR in two years, Heyward was a rental, Ozuna was not even close to high end. I love Goldy, but he’s not a game breaker anymore. That’s not the best, or even most of the best players to come through St Louis lately.
The Cards have not used only one model to build their franchise, nor should they. To suggest otherwise falls somewhere between ignorance and purposeful obfuscation of the underlying truth.December 29, 2020 at 7:45 am #150688
If those players weren’t the best or almost the best players to come through St. Louis recently, which players were? Looking forward to your list.December 29, 2020 at 7:57 am #150690
By the way, 25, Berkman’s 1st year here, before injuries slowed him –
Games – 145
BA – .301
OBP – .412
Slg. – .547
OPS – .959
Doubles – 23
Triples – 2
Home Runs – 31
RBI – 94
Helped lead the Cardinals to a World Championship. And you say he was no longer great when he cane here?December 29, 2020 at 4:38 pm #150749
I cannot vouch for the math in The Todd Squad’s post, and the spend is not complete, but the concept presented says a lot about the current state of affairs.
#StlCards are spending 57% of their payroll this season on:
Those guys are projected by Zips to produce 17% of the teams WAR
— The Todd Squad (@todsqd) December 29, 2020December 29, 2020 at 4:51 pm #150750gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
Those five players are currently 59% of payroll but that will decrease some if/when other signings take place but yes their salary to WAR ratio will be dismal.December 29, 2020 at 8:17 pm #150753December 29, 2020 at 8:18 pm #150754
Sorry, image didn’t post. Todd Rundgren’s album, “Something, anything?”December 29, 2020 at 9:41 pm #150755Cardinals27ParticipantPaid - Annual
Sad that the Cards have done nothing to get a player that could play third and make Carp a sub. There has to be a prospect blocked by a regular third baseman. Unless Sosa plays second, and Edman plays third. But Edman doesn’t much power for the typical third sacker.December 29, 2020 at 10:34 pm #150758
27 – Sosa isn’t a slightly built 5’10” 170 lbs. shortstop or second baseman. He’s 6’0” 210 lbs. and packs a punch. In only 112 games at Memphis in 2019 he had 17 home runs. Had an OPS just North of .800. When I saw him in games at Spring Training in March he was playing third base. He’s a natural to spell Carp at third base, if not a lot more.December 30, 2020 at 7:43 am #150768jj-cf-stlParticipantPaid - Annual
27, that’s like asking Mo to acquire and bench the Carpenter contract extension he offered. Right now Mo speak is targeting a DH to help the lineup, which doesn’t block either of his Fowler or Carpenter contracts, even though there is currently no DH in the NL.
3B/LF JD Davis has been a target for me all offseason, but 3B seems to be a waiting game. Wait for Carpenters contract to expire, and wait for Gorman to debut.December 30, 2020 at 7:50 am #150772
Right now Mo speak is targeting a DH to help the lineup, which doesn’t block either of his Fowler or Carpenter contracts, even though there is currently no DH in the NL.
Have to offer a different perspective. Right now, I don’t think they are targeting anyone other than moving glacially slow on Molina and Waino. I think they probably have names of DH candidates, but my impression is that they will not act until after both Waino and Yadi are resolved AND the DH decision is made by MLB and the MLBPA.
As I joked with Danny Mac (off the air) just now, March is the new December!December 30, 2020 at 7:56 am #150776jj-cf-stlParticipantPaid - Annual
Yes, the DH talk surprised me too, as I told you. I took it as a safe way of Mo deflecting the lineup issues.December 30, 2020 at 8:04 am #150778
Why target anyone when you’re probably a couple games clear of the entire division, at worst? As much as I’d like to see an addition that could help for multiple years (Pederson, Nimmo), it seems like a one year flier on a DH type around the start of spring training is the best we can hope for.December 30, 2020 at 8:04 am #150779
Absolutely. The name of the game is to stall for many reasons and the DH delay serves as a perfect shield.December 30, 2020 at 8:21 am #150782
Lots of teams saw what happened with Ozuna last off season. Couple that with uncertain revenues and you have a turtle market.December 30, 2020 at 8:41 am #150793gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
Frankly I don’t see this offseason being any slower than the previous few offseasons. Didn’t Machado and Harper both sign in late February/early March a couple of years ago? I view it as an extension of the animosity between the owners and players. Everything has turned into a big staring contest.
Once we are past covid I would like to see MLB adopt a more structured offseason schedule. There should be certain deadlines for trades and free agent signings, maybe December 31. They could make the winter meetings more of an event. It would be great publicity for the sport. The NBA already does this. 95% of their transactions are done within 48 hours. It is very exciting.
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