January 15, 2021 at 9:58 am #151809
I hope that is an excerpt from the VEB article rather than the entire thing. Our policy is to provide short quotes and summaries of content from other sites plus a link to the full article – rather than copying and pasting all of the article text. That is respectful to the original author and the site at which it appears.
On the piece itself, it restates what has already been discussed for months, or one could suggest, for several years.January 15, 2021 at 10:17 am #151811
Having to put three players in the starting lineup because they are being paid too much to sit is a real problem for me to grasp and it sabotage the 2021 edition of the St. Louis Cardinals. IMO it seems that someone has been asleep at the wheel.
It’s not true. Carpenter sat for much of 2020. He will do so again if he doesn’t produce. Fowler is in the same boat. Not sure who the third one is, but the other highly paid players are either young enough to turn around and produce well, or just plain better than all the other options.
Anyway, I truly don’t get the dour outlook on this team. Sure, 2020 had a bad offense but it’s already been shown that COVID and the crazy schedule were the main causes (105 wRC+ the first 2/3 of the schedule, 65 wRC+ after they hit the wall).
The lineup has All Star Goldy and near All Star Dejong, with Carlson looking like a future very good player. Gorman and Herrera are nearly ready to make the jump and there’s enough projection in players like O’Neill, Edman, Thomas and some minors guys like Montero to see the potential for a solid lineup and defense.
The pitching staff has some question marks, but there’s Flaherty and Kim, with Hudson due back in 2022. Exciting young arms like Liberatore, Thompson, Oviedo, Rondon, etc are nearly ready to fill out the rotation. The bullpen was very good in 2020 and gets Hicks back.
Oh, and the Cards will have $50-70M to spend next offseason under almost any reasonable assumption for payroll going forward. Free agency and trades should help plug any holes that are needed to be filled, and the Cards will have the money and prospects to do so.
Keep your chin up, NyquisT. 2021 may be a “down” year (where the team could still well win the NL Central) but the future is pretty bright.January 15, 2021 at 11:09 am #151822
Ny, I am not asking this to be confrontational or to be rude. It is a genuinely honest question after having read your posts for several years. Would you rather see the Cardinals totally fail for a year or two so the front office would be turned over? I don’t see how it would happen otherwise. Or do you see the way out differently?
Because just rehashing the past once again isn’t really all that interesting – and that is all I see in the VEB text. Nothing that can be changed.
P.S. The assumption being made seems to be that Carpenter and Fowler (not sure who the third is) are going to play every day all year long no matter what. Like it or not, right now, with the roster as it is today, they are both among the best eight position players. If once the season begins, the two struggle and the Cards don’t react with lineup changes, then the criticism would be warranted, IMO. But the roster is what it is and they aren’t spending to make it better.January 15, 2021 at 11:35 am #151829January 15, 2021 at 12:10 pm #151832
Seems like a pretty straight forward rational article.January 15, 2021 at 5:39 pm #151877mspaidParticipantFree
Sounds accurate to me. I think he overvalued some youngsters but the rest was good. He points out the problem…they never go for the big player in free agency and they always lack that great player. They’ll always be competitive but will never be a very good team, never be a powerhouse and the chances of winning the WS are between remote and impossible. To be a serious WS contender they need to get the big players. They’ll have a chance after the 21 season. I have high hopes but low expectations.January 16, 2021 at 10:57 am #15193914NyquisTParticipant
P.S. The assumption being made seems to be that Carpenter and Fowler (not sure who the third is) are going to play every day all year long no matter what. Like it or not, right now, with the roster as it is today, they are both among the best eight position players.
If Molina is given two years and the money he is demanding…. he would be #3. The FO has painted itself into a corner. As luck would have it they only get to talk up the team being in the competition for the division crown is because they are in the NLC.
Yep, some of the Fowler situation is repetitive because so many know the drill (Fowler plays period) and have voiced their displeasure with that.
If you want to throw 2020 out of the equation that’s fair. I just think that the ownership and FO could have done a better job at putting together a better and more exciting team for the ’21 season. I don’t want the team to fail this season (I’m dyed in the wool red) and certainly not next season. Also, I am a bit frustrated knowing that all the other teams have been effected by C-19 but are spending money on upgrades.
Its not out of the question that there will be a number of Cards that will have very good seasons. I believe in that. Players will have up and down seasons… that’s part of sports.
I will probably spend this season with my fingers frozen crossed…. joining management in doing the same.January 16, 2021 at 11:58 am #151943
Also, I am a bit frustrated knowing that all the other teams have been effected by C-19 but are spending money on upgrades.
The Padres, White Sox, Mets, and recently the Yankees have been active. Most of the other 26 teams haven’t done much of anything.January 16, 2021 at 12:00 pm #151945blingboyParticipantPaid - Annual
Not all the other teams. The Cards can “be competitive” in the NL Central without spending any money since the rest aren’t spending either.January 16, 2021 at 5:26 pm #151958Cardinal in FranceParticipantFree
Brian: Just a note to thank you and that small hard core of stat jugglers out there for your valiant effort to keep this forum going in the absence of real baseball news. Though I’ve contributed nothing the mere presence of a few folks writing about baseball (even if a bit repetitive) is a great relief from reading the constant verbiage about germs, vaccinations and the disheartening goings on in Washington.
May the Good Lord give us a spring training!January 16, 2021 at 5:36 pm #151961
Amen to that!January 16, 2021 at 8:20 pm #151969Card4EverParticipantFree
First a large thank you for this forum. I read Cards Talk, but feel in need a shower after reading all of the insults, etc.
What do you all think the odds are that the Cardinals actually do something to really improve the team from last year, (not Yadi & Waino and the status quo)?January 16, 2021 at 8:25 pm #151970Card4EverParticipantFree
Would you give up Gorman & either Liberatore or Thompson for Ramirez from Cleveland? 3 years on contract at a very reasonable rate, and wouldn’t be blocking anyone.January 17, 2021 at 8:55 am #15200214NyquisTParticipant
I’m guessing that Gorman and Liberatore are hands-off. The future of these two are another reason that the Cards can stand pat for ’21. Seeing them in Busch this season is probably a solid bet.
With that thought in mind… I wonder how all the Card’s prospects will look like after missing ’20. I hope that they spent that time wisely with ’21 on the horizon for them.January 17, 2021 at 11:45 am #152009
I am not giving away Gorman and Liberatore. We need to keep our powder dry until next offseason.January 20, 2021 at 4:59 am #152145blingboyParticipantPaid - Annual
I don’t read Ben Fred in the Post much but did note he sees Bader fitting as a good run prevention defender hitting at the bottom of a decent lineup. I agree completely. If he has to be central to your lineup you have a big problem.January 20, 2021 at 7:15 am #152151
Blingboy – We have a problem with Bader hitting anywhere in the lineup.
We need half a team right now –
Catcher, Third Base, Left Field, and Centerfield. Great pitching depth, though.
We were 2 games over .500 last season. And that was with Waino, Yadi, and Wong.
Who knows, though. Maybe we’ll be better this season. We can always hope. Maybe Mo will pull off some good moves before opening day.January 20, 2021 at 7:23 am #152153
Bader was 13% above average with the bat last year. He was hardly the problem. It’s crazy to not list right field as an area of need.January 20, 2021 at 7:48 am #152154
Okay. Add right field too, 25. You and I both know this offense is the weakest in a long time. I sure hope they make several moves to support our pitchers. They deserve it.January 20, 2021 at 7:52 am #152156
The loss of defense is going to be incredibly stark if Yadi and Wong aren’t back, and they move Bader and/or O’Neill in a trade or by adding a stone gloved OFer. It’ll make the pitching look marginal itself, more so than the offense would look average in 2021 simply by playing a normal schedule with the players they had in 2020.January 20, 2021 at 8:16 am #152165
You’re right, 25. Defense is key. I have a lot of respect for you and your thoughts.
Will be taking some time off from posting to concentrate on business and family. Peace. Be well.January 20, 2021 at 8:20 am #152166
You as well, bc. Hopefully we will have some on the field stuff to talk about in a month or so if the spring training schedule gets finalized!!January 20, 2021 at 8:51 am #152170
Then again, maybe it is overdue to start to find a new identity…
“They would be a team, at least for 2021, without an identity,” writes @Ben_Fred. “A team floating through a season without one for the first time in a long time.” #cardinals #stlcards #MLB https://t.co/zGSqsa8eYD
— Derrick S. Goold (@dgoold) January 20, 2021January 20, 2021 at 12:18 pm #152176
I’m listening through the WW chats right now. Dewitt didn’t sound all that confident about Yadi and Waino coming back. Makes you wonder what the offers were? There’s a not-that-low shot that this team is exactly what they are today come opening day.January 20, 2021 at 12:46 pm #152182
Agreed on your assessment of DeWitt. In fact, I called that out specifically in my Danny Mac podcast today.
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