January 20, 2021 at 12:55 pm #152184
That would be really thin at catcher. If we’re holding auditions again in the outfield, I suppose we could be doing the same at catcher too, although I’d prefer some experience even if it’s a defensive first catcher.January 20, 2021 at 1:03 pm #152185
That’s a positive assessment for catcher compared to my view, jj. Lol. Maybe they could just bring Herrera all the way up and let him sink or swim.January 20, 2021 at 1:36 pm #152187
Mo said earlier in the off-season that they would bring in a veteran catcher if Molina does not re-sign. And no, Tyler Heineman does not count.January 20, 2021 at 6:20 pm #152198
Cranny I really don’t think Bader is a problem, but I am old fashioned. Invest in defense up the middle, stick them at the bottom of the order and get your offense from the corners. The problem is we get no offense from the corners and let a GG middle infielder walk. Who is also about the only capable top of the order hitter on the team. And the way pitchers go down left and right now days it doesn’t make sense to put all your eggs in that basket. All that is the problem. I think if we play 162 it will be ugly.January 20, 2021 at 6:45 pm #152201bccranParticipant
Agree with you on your points. I might not be so down on Bader if we had offensive competency at third base, left field, right field, and catcher.
Edman should be fine at second base. He’s been working hard on angles and the pivot over the off season. He’s quick and his range is good. We should continue to be fine defensively up the middle.
But we clearly need a bat or two.
Taking a break from TCN for awhile. Be well and safe.January 20, 2021 at 6:56 pm #152202
In the Winter Warmup conversations, one of the main takeaways for me is that the FO is a) short on cash to spend and b) terrified of having another Arozarena situation. Dewitt basically threw a giant bucket of ice water on the hot stove, and Mo followed it up by doubling down on saying that they will be giving ample opportunities to the young OFers. While there may be a slight chance that they add an OFer/DH bat, I get the feeling that any bat they add will be a DH/IF type. Like a Brad Miller types, cheap platoon guy for Carp.January 20, 2021 at 7:40 pm #152203
Maybe I am too close to it, but I did not hear any major messages from the execs this past weekend that were new or surprising. I suspect some had set their expectations much higher based on hope.January 20, 2021 at 7:46 pm #152205
stlcard25, yeah, they sure weren’t trying to sell any tickets were they.
As to Arozarena, there was absolutely nothing wrong with anything he did in STL or within our system, or anywhere else he played. And its not like there was a crop of world beaters pushing him aside. I have to believe the decision to move him was made by the computers.January 20, 2021 at 9:17 pm #152209
There is one line of thinking that the Cardinals can use the Arozarena situation to justify doing nothing to enhance the outfield. This was unwittingly enabled by the high level of Cardinal fan outrage over what happened with Randy.
The front office may be right that the anger if they did it again with O’Neill or Thomas, for example, would be worse than if they kept them and made no additions in 2021.
They know they will be criticized either way, so go with the approach that requires less spending.
I don’t know that any of this is real, but it had crossed my mind…January 20, 2021 at 9:28 pm #152210
Yes, I also saw the Arozarena excuse as a cop-out for doing little in the OF, it just seemed too convenient.
What surprises me is how fans, media and even our FO refuses to acknowledge we did get a very nice return of players in the Arozarena trade. If a casual fan didn’t know better they could easily think we released Arozarena for nothing.January 20, 2021 at 10:22 pm #152211Nathan Leopold Jr.ParticipantFree
If anyone thinks the Cardinals are going to do anything “significant” this winter then they’re not listening. Mo made it clear at the press conference a few weeks ago that no moves were likely. Now, they always use the canned line “If something comes along that will help the team that we can make work then we’ll consider it.” Not Mo’s fault. Junior said No gate receipts…we are NOT spending money and we’re acquiring no one so go out there and do your best with the media. Mo as always did a fine job. He was asked point blank by Gould (I think it was him) if the outfield would be a good place to acquire a bat. That was the perfect time for Mo to say yes it was most likely since none of the positions are set in stone. He said nothing and after a few hems and haws, he moved on to the next question. I laughed until I about choked. It was the same as Mo standing on top of Busch Stadium and screaming “No acquisitions this winter!!!!!” We’ll get to see if O’Neill, Thomas, Williams, Carlson and maybe others are any good. We’ll also get to see some of the young pitching on trial. That’s what 2021 will be but even with that approach they could easily win the pathetic central division. So, there is no reason for Junior to spend money or trade prospects. Bring on Spring Training because I think the roster is already set.January 21, 2021 at 4:19 am #152212
mspaid, we will have to see how much playing around Fowler those young outfielders have to do.January 21, 2021 at 6:18 am #152213
Bring on Spring Training because I think the roster is already set.
I think there’s a 50-50 shot that Yadi or Waino comes back, and if not I think they’ll sign some sort of insurance at catcher. They may try to bring in a few big league guys on minors deals.
100% agree that I’m ready for Spring Training to start so we have some real baseball action, even if the team is likely not going to be very good this year.January 21, 2021 at 6:59 am #152214
jj, I sense the “Randy Rage” (TM) was heightened by the fact that the guys who stayed did not break out like he did. Instead the Cardinals offense continued to struggle, which is more important to them than a future pitching star. Reactions tend to be in the moment and hindsight is always 20-20.
(They would also be the first to criticize again if O’Neill or Thomas were traded and break out on another team. Heck, we even had someone here questioning Adolis Garcia, before he has ever done anything worthwhile (except in Triple-A, of course)! In the real world, teams cannot keep every player. They have to make tough decisions. Some work out and some do not. In some cases, it takes years to assess accurately, not in the first 10 minutes.)January 21, 2021 at 7:13 am #152216
There’s a day coming where Mo can smugly say “that’s on me”, and he’ll be speaking of Liberatore.January 21, 2021 at 7:49 am #152223
Agreed, jj. That day may be this year, even.January 21, 2021 at 6:31 pm #152253
Lets do remember we are talking about 80 innings at low-A two seasons ago. A lot of guys we never heard of looked good at that point.
We also don’t really know what Arozarena will amount to, but it will be interesting to see what he does now that opposing teams have some tape and metrics.January 21, 2021 at 7:15 pm #152256
In other words, it is too early to declare winners and losers – despite 95% of the fan base having done just that – and the pressure was bad enough for the team to issue a public mea culpa.January 21, 2021 at 7:59 pm #152258
It is too early to know how it will pan out, but that is a separate` question from whether it was a bad trade at the time it was made. I wasn’t following closely enough to know whether those complaining loudest now were doing so right off the bat before Randy did anything for TB. But one other thing to consider is that TB thought there was something worth moving a promising lefty for. Something besides Martinez.January 22, 2021 at 7:51 am #152279
Weak bench = weak pinch-hitting results.
Unless there are different players, I do not see how platooning would help this stat. After all, the entire reason to pinch hit is to try to gain the advantage. It did not work because of the personnel available, IMO.
Difficult for me to envision how Edmundo Sosa or Austin Dean, for example, would change this trajectory. Maybe they will get some platoon guys off the scrap heap when prices dip lower…
#Cardinals trouble in a pinch is a part of the motivation behind looking into ways that can can change the lineup.
In 32 PH AB #stlcards had a single. That’s it. They went one-for-32 (.034) with 12 strikeouts.
“We were not good,” Shildt said. “At all.” https://t.co/vvQ0D8lRYt
— Derrick S. Goold (@dgoold) January 22, 2021January 22, 2021 at 9:28 am #152286
That’s funny, Goold getting PA’s and AB’s mixed up. 1-29 AB is a .034 BA (2 BB, 1 HBP = 32 PA’s).
Of those 29 AB’s, 0-11 were by returning regulars with over 100 PA’s, usually subbing for said platoon advantage.
Of the remaining 18 AB’s, 0-12 were by players who have already been jettisoned from the roster.
Of the remaining 6 AB’s, the one hit was by Knizner 1-2, Thomas went 0-2, Dean 0-1 and Williams 0-1.January 23, 2021 at 12:11 pm #152371gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
Interesting article but I would say it is a bit over stated. I think this offseason is more about covid and money than any of the other stuff mentioned.
Saturday Stream of Consciousness: A Quandry of Circular Fears
Mozeliak admits that this will be a "long year" if the offense doesn’t improve. Why won’t they do something about it? Because they’re paralyzed by circular fears. https://t.co/7Z0kFIVUpF
— viva el birdos (@vivaelbirdos) January 23, 2021January 23, 2021 at 1:38 pm #152373
I consider it a bad sign when “Quandary” in the title is misspelled… 😉January 23, 2021 at 2:02 pm #152375forsch31ParticipantFree
My only issue with the VEB article is the assumption that the current players need to overperform. Minor league performance shows that O’Neill, Bader, Thomas and Williams could perform as well as Pederson and just meet expectations. If they performed above those numbers, then they would be over performing. It’s just that they haven’t been able to do it, yet.January 23, 2021 at 2:43 pm #152376gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
My problem with the article and basically the entire offseason is the assumption that the offense needs a major overhaul in order to win the NLC in 2021. That just isn’t true. If they maintained what they had last year they would be favorites to win the division. If they doubled down on some run prevention moves, which would be cheaper than offensive upgrades, they would be prohibitive favorites to win the division.
Would that be enough to be a World Series contender? No, of course not but I never considered that a realistic opportunity in 2021 anyway. That is more of a 2022 goal.
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