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We have 10 starting pitchers now (including Reyes) that are either vets or major league ready. Do you put some of them in the ML bullpen or keep them stretched out to back fill for injuries.
Bc, I think that the bullpen is what I’d do. Maybe keep a couple stretched out as long guys for injury replacement. After the last two years, I see no reason to have guys rampaging in Memphis when the bullpen has been so awful.
Another option would be to try to package some for hitting prospects, a la the Marco-O’Neill trade.
Gant, Ponce, Gomber, Hudson and Helsley, to me, seem to be excellent candidates to be plus pitchers in the bullpen. This team with an above average ‘pen maybe wouldn’t be up with the Cubs but I guarantee they’d be leading the Wild Card standings right now.
It’s a catch-22 situation imo. They all needed work in AAA this year to solidify that opinion. At THIS time, yes they would be very good bullpen candidates. But then, why pigeon-hole them into the bullpen when our chances of making the playoffs are so minimal.
Gant and Gomber are the ones I like least in the pen though. I’m not sure what to make of Poncedeleon yet. All 3 have been superb contributors this season.
We need to be making some decisions on our starting pitchers. In 2019, we should have the following competing for spots unless something happens:
CMartinez
Wacha
Reyes
Mikolas
Flaherty
Weaver
Gant
Hudson
Gomber
PoncedeleonI would try to get a top 20 prospect for Martinez. If we aren’t going to sign Wacha to a contract that will keep him past next year, he would be another possible trade candidate.
I still say the only way to make this team work is to double down on pitching and defense. We already have the makings of an outstanding rotation. WE now must fix the bullpen and defense.
Up the middle defense is crucial and should be emphasized. Jager or someone on this board mentioned going after Iglesias of Detroit. I like that idea of signing him in the offseason. We could have a strong defensive core of Molina at C, Iglesias at SS, and Wong at 2B. I would put that defensive core up against anyone in MLB. The rest of the defense would be DeJong at 3B, Carp at 1B, Ozuna or Pham in LF, and Fowler or O’Neill in RF. That offense wouldn’t be the 27 Yankees but it would freaking catch the ball.
As for the bullpen I would re-sign Norris and try to sign one more elite arm. There will be plenty to choose from among Kimbrel, Miller, Allen, Familia, and Herrera. Surely one of them would work for us. The other six spots could be Hicks, Mayers, Brebbia, Hudson, Helsley, and Gomber. We could probably use another lefty in their somewhere though.
Holland, Cecil, Gegerson, Lyons, and Bowman should never take the mound for us again after this year.
Forsch, from your list, this is the order of guys I’d trade, from most likely to least:
1. Hudson (Stock up)
2. Gomber (being lefty helps him, I think he’s just the least useful long term for us: Stock up)3. Weaver (Stock down)
4. Mikolas (Stock way up)
5. Gant (Stock slightly up)6. Poncedeleon (Stock up)
7. Wacha (Stock down)8. Reyes (Stock way, way down)
9. Flaherty (Stock way up)
10. CMartinez (Stock down)I separated guys a bit for a reason. The top 2 I’d probably trade for just about any upgrade or in a depth for depth trade, a la Marco-O’Neill. The next 3 I’d trade but only if we get a better haul than we would otherwise expect, such as Weaver a piece in trading for an ace or elite hitter, Mikolas for a prospect haul, etc. The next two I’d probably not trade under any circumstances unless someone trades you something silly, like they value Ponce as an already established starter or give you Wacha 2018 value as though he’s not been hurt. The last three I’m not trading unless it’s a monster blockbuster for pretty much cannot miss prospects (like Torres, Guerrero Jr, that level) or in a trade for a controllable star like Arenado.
Though now I’m starting to wonder if we should sell high on Reyes, is he going to be the pitcher that many think that he will or will he be the great promise but injury prone pitcher that always misses big chunks of time every year…he’s already lost 2 years to big injuries…
Trading him right now is the exact opposite of selling high on him. Between the injuries and service clock running while he’s been out, he would have shockingly low value.
I think it has to be time for a youth movement the rest of the way this year. At least playing the youngsters would be entertaining, because of their hustle. Our vets seem to have a lack of hustle. I would move norris, and jmart for whatever I could get. Look to salary dump fowler if at all possible(august I’m guessing). Get ozuna’s shoulder checked out. That would make room for bader and possibly oneil to play everyday.
The Cards won’t trade Hudson. I expect him to be Flaherty Jr. and around in this organization for at least until he’ll need to be paid.
After essentially losing so much money for such little help from the aging Holland, Cecil, Gregerson and Leone. Add them all up and there is nothing to show. That road certainly didn’t work out like management thought it would. So the F.O. may be gun-shy in dealing with the bullpen and will change directions by looking from within the organization.
There’s 10 pretty good pitchers up on the board (list of 10). and none of them belong at AAA in ’19. Any four of them would have to be an improvement over what we have to deal with now. And there are so many young, talented and cheap arms.
Nyquist…apart from Leone, I agree with you. I think Dominic will be fine (he’s only 26) when he comes back. He had a freak injury and assuming he’s healthy, he’s cheap and should be on the team.
Those other guys should be used to fill up the bullpen or in trades for legitimate upgrades.
It’s exactly what I said they should do, get something while they can for him. He wasn’t going to play in STL, with or without Martinez. Carpenter needs to stay at 1B and Voit had nowhere to go. It could be a good opportunity for Voit over the next 3-6 weeks while Judge is out.
I mentioned KC before as a landing spot for him because of being cheap and KC 1B options for 2019, but he might get an opportunity in NY for a few weeks to prove himself he wasn’t going to get in STL.I’m not sure that we will be buyers or sellers. It looks like we are making changes to play better and have not dealt away anyone significant yet. One publication I read said we were the least interesting of all the 30 major league teams in their expectations for the trading deadline.
I doubt this was about trading Voit. The Cards wanted immediate LH relief help with a controllable contract and the Yankees were interested. Works out well for all.
Goold suggests Wisdom could be traded, too. He does not offer hope for Wisdom to get and keep a 40-man spot with St. Louis.
Re: Patrick Wisdom. There are a few teams interested in the #stlcards Class AAA Memphis slugger. He deserves a chance that he hasn't gotten with #Cardinals. When that happens is unclear. He'll be with a new organization by 2019, for sure. https://t.co/rhEUieh0C8
— Derrick Goold (@dgoold) July 29, 2018
If they move Martinez, Carpenter, or Gyorko I would think Wisdom or Ravelo might fill a Voit type role.
Now that the team is in the sellers mode, I think no one will be on the non-expendable list. Its also impossible to even guess which way the FO. is looking…. which team, when and for what. We are normally surprised at what comes about.
Nyquis, how does trading a minor leaguer and intl money for a major leaguer and a second that is major league ready translate to being sellers?
Don’t sellers trade valuable bit expensive major league pieces for high ceiling high level minor leaguers?
Don’t sellers trade valuable bit expensive major league pieces for high ceiling high level minor leaguers?
Baltimore just traded Brad Brach for international pool money. So, no.
SB NATION /VEB conducted a poll regarding buyers/sellers:
Should the Cardinals be sellers at the deadline?
75% Yes, and make everyone available.
(888 votes)19% Yes, but only short term players such as Ozuna, Gyorko, Norris etc.
(221 votes)0% No, and stick with the current roster.
(5 votes)2% No, and make a few minor tweaks.
(18 votes)4% No, and make major upgrades by any means.
(47 votes)1179 votes total
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