Buyers or sellers?

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  • #50581
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    It may be a little premature at this point but are there any thoughts or crystal balls that anyone would like to present?

    #50583
    Avatar858booyah
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    They’ll do what Bowtie does best. Add a low risk bullpen arm at the deadline or after and call it a day.

    I wish they could jettison a contract though. My guess is they’ll try and let a couple guys play through some issues and DL someone and wait for thrm to.get right as well.

    #50584
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    So that’s one vote for buyers?

    #50585
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Ideally they would be able to consolidate some of the mid level pieces they have into a higher end player. Would probably have to part with a plus prospect to make that happen though.

    #50586
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    “May be premature” ??? You don’t say.

    1.5 behind a team most expect to fold. 1.0 out of the wild card. 135 left to play.

    I guess it breaks up the normal negativity.

    #50589
    AvatarCardinals2016
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    I don’t think it’s premature at all with Baltimore already out of it and the Cardinals still in it despite having half of their regular lineup under-performing.

    The traditional “let’s add a bullpen piece” won’t work this year because we don’t have space in the bullpen, even though it is blowing up in our faces often.

    The biggest thing is our lineup is under-performing. Machado is performing well.

    Trade now.

    While Wong is the person I would prefer to send back, I think it would have to be Gyorko, Hudson + 1 other piece to get the trade done.

    #50597
    AvatarOnyxgem
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    CC – how is this team doing against teams not like the highschool Reds?

    THey aren’t doing good at all

    #50598
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    So the Brewers must be big time sellers since they are 5-12 vs. above .500 teams and 11-1 vs. sub .500 teams. And the Pirates. And the Dodgers. And the Phillies. In fact, there are only 3 NL teams with winning records vs teams above .500. Way to early to draw many conclusions.

    #50600
    AvatarPadsFS
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    Buyers of course.

    If we are out of it (and that’s a big if) I could see them selling high on Gyorko and Pham.

    #50604
    AvatarCardinals27
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    No doubt they played poorly against the Pirates. But I will say luck was not on their side. Several flairs fell in and Mayers sawed off a couple bats that look like line drives in the box score. What is most disturbing is the bullpen and Matheny blew Friday nights game, and they only score 2 runs the next 2 games. I wish I could see Carpenter and Fowler making louder outs at least.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by AvatarCardinals27.
    #50616
    AvatarSoonerinNC
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    Buyer or seller I would look to move Jose Martinez to the American League. Ideal DH candidate. Sell high while he is hitting well.

    Also look to dump Fowler for whatever we can get. We have plenty of options for him and he is doing us no good.

    Position players and bullpen. We have a number of average at best people who are holding back players with potential. Need to act before they totally deterioate.

    Probably would mean missing the playoffs again. If so I think Matheny is gone and that would make many on this board very happy. Maybe more happy than winning.

    #50620
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    T,
    I expect team health the next 3 months to determine the buyers or sellers question.

    Without major injuries to core players we are buyers, but, I’m a bit leery of buying with recent results.

    Holland, Gregerson, Norris, Ozuna, Mikolas, Leone, Pena, J. Martinez, Fowler, Cecil, Gyorko. Crazy, but it seems the more expensive the player, the poorer the results.

    #50633
    Avatarforsch31
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    The Cardinals should be buyers. Just because the pen has hit a few bumps and a couple of players have started slow is no reason to sell. This team is VERY close.

    The players that I would look to move are:
    Carpenter
    Wong
    Fowler
    A RP or 2

    The players I would move for an upgrade:
    J. Martinez
    Pham
    Gyorko
    C. Martinez

    When I say c. Martinez for an upgrade, I mean Arenado or Freeman. We need contact hitters and OBP guys, not strikeout guys.

    #50634
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    So we are buyers but we should be moving 6 of 8 position players and our #1 starter?

    #50645
    Avatarforsch31
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    No. You don’t move all of them. You look to move some of them. However, if you can get an Arenado or Freeman, you don’t need Carpenter or J. Martinez. Pipe dream, yes.

    I would look to move them in the following order:
    Carpenter – defensively challenged and bat is disappearing
    Fowler – too many prospects that could replace him
    Wong – doesn’t seem to grasp how he should be as fielder or hitter
    J. Martinez – excellent bat but bad defense
    Gyorko – good defender, good power, overlooked player by fans
    Pham – excellent player, concerned with eyesight for the long term
    C. Martinez – great potential but will he ever achieve it?

    Maybe you turn Fowler, Gyorko, Hudson and Brebbia into Machado.
    And/or C. Martinez, J. Martinez and Pham into Freddie Freeman and Mike Soroka.
    And I am sure that it would probably take another piece in both cases.

    #50649
    thejagerthejager
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    I don’t like the argument that the Cardinals only look good because we have beat the Reds for 7 of the wins

    Last year we did NOT beat the Reds when we were the better team and it ended up being the difference between the playoffs (and potentially the division) and not

    The Reds looked great early on last year and floundered late…and the Cards looked bad early and lost alot of those games to them

    Beating the poorer teams is important, you cant discount wins early…there are a lot of games to be played and hopefully some guys will round into form…last year’s team it took a while but we were right there at the end…give us those early wins over lesser teams and we’d have been in…

    this team is not struggling as mightily as last year and looks better on paper too…

    i am concerned about Holland and Gregerson…and Carpenter and Fowler

    I think we are adding…the front office and managerial staff knows their jobs are tied pretty heavily to winning right now…maybe Moz and Girsch are safe, probably Maddux and Oquendo too but all the other people around them will be pushing on making changes if needed for no other reasons than survival

    -trade for a reliever…maybe a guy like Brad Hand
    -trade for a 3bman (maybe 1b if the right deal presents itself) with solid to good ability…possibly veteran…Beltre might be the type to look for…even if not BEltre…
    -Kyle Seager is worth a look too…though his contact isnt exactly what i’d want…but the M’s seem liek a good partner for trading
    -you could also go for a big Rockies trade for Arenado and have him for a little more than 1 year…if the Rox are out of it…the value would have to be really high probably out of our safe zone…but the reward for 1.25 years of Arenado that we could offer might outweigh their belief they could re-sign him before FA and they’d still have a shot in FA too
    -i’d also call the Reds about Suarez…i know he just got the extension but perhaps they may rethink their commitment in money to him if the season goes more and more poorly

    no to Donaldson or Machado unless they come with extensions…and even then i dont think i want Donaldson with an extension anyways

    #50653
    Avatargscottar
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    We will be buyers but to what extend depends on how far behind we are from the first place Cubs. Do you really want to make a big splash to earn the right to play in a do or die wild card game? I wouldn’t but I would make a splash at the chance to win the division.

    Donaldson won’t be available if Toronto stays in contention. Otherwise, it will be Machado, Moose, Beltre, or someone like that depending where we are in the standings.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by Avatargscottar.
    #50662
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/dave_roberts_benched_cody_bellinger_for_lack_of_hustle/s1_12680_26315054?mb_edition=20180501

    What a novel idea… there are at least three on the Cards that Matheny should bench!!!! The FO should take notice for when the deadline comes around.

    #56835
    Avatarforsch31
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    I still feel the Cardinals should be buyers. The only way they should make a deal, though, is if they can make a major upgrade. I don’t want Machado unless they can get him for a little bit of nothing or they would be willing to sign him in the offseason to the contract it would take.

    My list of getting rid of players has changed a little.

    Get rid of:
    Fowler
    Wong
    Holland (if his troubles continue)

    NEED to move to get better overall:
    J. Martinez
    Carpenter

    Use to get a difference maker:
    Martinez/Wacha/Weaver/Flaherty (1 of them)
    Pham
    Kelly

    Keep:
    Ozuna
    Bader
    Molina
    DeJong

    #56859
    Avatargscottar
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    I mentioned this in the trade thread but if we fall much further behind we should consider being sellers. Not a rebuild but just a quick retooling like the 2016 Yankees. I don’t think it makes much sense to trade too many prospects for a chance at a one game wild card. Now if we are within range of the division that is a different story.

    #56913
    AvatarSoonerinNC
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    It will be hard to be sellers if we have any kind of shot at a wild card. But I don’t favor giving up key players for a short Machado rental. Would love to have him but not for just 2 months. There are more reasons to become sellers than buyers.

    1) We are a weak defensive team and the status quo gives us only a weaker one next year.

    2) We are likely in our third consecutive declining season with a number of expensive contracts for poor performers. Probably more likely to finish fourth than to make the wild card.

    3) We have significant talent at the upper levels of our minor league system and a two month shot at the major league level would give us an idea of their ability to adjust to the top level. If they fail we just get a higher draft choice next year.

    #56921
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    2) No, this is not a third consecutive declining season. The Cards are on pace for 89 wins, six more than last year. They are essentially tied for the second wild card currently.

    To be disappointed with this team overall, one had to have expectations for 90 wins or more. Before the season, I do not recall anyone here stating that optimistic of a view.

    I get that they have flaws and have played very unevenly, but that does not change the fact they remain competitive. That is what we should have expected from this roster.

    #56923
    AvatarTexasCard
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    I agree BW, but I said just yesterday I was down on them. We are about to find out just how competitive they really are over this next couple of week’s worth of games.

    #56924
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    My bottom line on this particular topic is very, very simple. Unless they really crater, which they have not done over the first 69 games to date, they are not going to be sellers.

    P.S. That doesn’t mean they could not shed a bad contract, bad fit, as they did with Leake last year. But, they did not deal away Lynn, which would have been a signal of surrender, IMO.

    #56928
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I really wanted them to sell off some assets last year, which they didn’t do. I think this year’s team is better than last and thought 90 wins was possible, but maybe not the most probable.

    Since then, the bullpen has flamed out and key offensive players have struggled mightily at times, but the starting pitching is legit.

    I see no real reason to do more than tinker and maybe move some guys for a change of pace. The offense needs the Tommy Pham from May 17 to May 18 to come back or at least approximate it, and the runs will be more easily come by.

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