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Why should they sell Norris?
Why not? He’s a closer for a team that is not very likely to make the playoffs and is on a one year deal. He’s the most obvious trade candidate on the team. I’d sell him for an A/A+ guy with a great arm who might be having control issues or whatnot in a heartbeat. Think of someone like a Junior Fernandez or Alvaro Seijas from our system. It’s a risk with little downside besides two months less of Bud Norris. Maybe we could get a rookie level lotto ticket thrown in.
Why sell him for that? I would rather use him and maybe another trade chip for a much better return than what is essentially a lotto ticket.
Norris would like to stay with the Cardinals for longer than just this year. He would be an obvious asset for the ‘pen. I would like to sign him for a 2 year extension.
Well, if that’s how you view him then I get what you’re going for. I don’t see him in that role but it’s possible he’s really found his niche.
Personally, I’d rather go for a true upgrade in the bullpen and fill in around him with youth for 2019. There’s no reason we can’t have an internal bullpen with guys like Helsley, Hudson, Ponce, Gant, Gomber, etc that would probably be a step up from this year.
If you are referring to the true bullpen upgrade coming from outside the organization, do you have faith that the team will find that player? Someone like Cecil, Holland or Gregerson? Norris is the best they have found recently.
I’m not sure after this season so far what a sure thing bull pen piece from outside the organization is.
F.O. will never sell Fowler. That would create a monetary figure differential for all to see. Actually, they can’t even give him away. Waiting for that clown to revert to ’16 is like waiting in STL for a train bound for Shanghai. Not happening. He is only making more of a fool of himself and the people that pay money to see a Cards game.
Hey Ricky, here’s a word for you…. worthless.
If you are referring to the true bullpen upgrade coming from outside the organization, do you have faith that the team will find that player?
It’s true that the FO has done much better with the under the radar stuff lately than big signings, but all of these guys are free agents this offseason and surely at least one of them would be an upgrade over Norris (and all will probably be $$):
Kelvin Herrera
Jeurys Familia
Cody Allen
Zach Britton
Craig Kimbrel
Adam Ottavino
David Robertson
Andrew MillerAll but Robertson and Miller are younger than Bud, too. If Bud would be willing to give us a discount, then I suppose I would be willing to entertain two years at $15M or something like that.
Another name to keep in mind… Trevor Rosenthal. I’m not sure whether the bridge was burned after he was let go or not though.
All in all, there are a lot of very good free agent bullpen options this offseason. I’d be in favor of trying to lock one down and then filling the pen with our dynamic young arms. Then again, I was beating the drum two offseasons ago to go hard after Kenley Jansen (I would have been willing to go up to $20m/year to secure that dominance, but admittedly he may not have wanted to leave LA) but it didn’t happen.
I think this little swoon/ dive may be a blessing that nudges the FO to make us sellers instead of falling that we should be buyers. This team isn’t winning anything anytime soon if it doesn’t make several changes.
I hope your right dave but I have a feeling we will stand pat at the deadline. If we do anything at all it will be marginal.
I think the inertia that bicyclemike said was carrying the Cardinals toward winning ways during the first years of Matheny’s tenure is now carrying the Cardinals toward losing ways. It won’t be a simple thing to change that. Its going to take determination and practice, practice, practice. If Shildt is still manager next spring, how he handles ST will tell us a lot about the future of the team.
IMO, the FO should save their dry powder for the offseason unless the Yankees want to offer a trade package that includes Torres for CMart, and maybe Kelly. I’m not sure i would trade Kelly for Torres even up. High ceiling catchers are a rare and valuable commodity, and Kelly is looking ‘high ceiling’ again.
No. But I’ve seen his stats and heard the hype. All I’m saying is that if the Yankees are interested in acquiring a catcher like Kelly, and a pitcher like CMart, they will have to include more than Torres.
Obviously, if CMart can’t prove that he’s healthy before the trade deadline, trade talk will have to wait until the offseason.
If we didn’t have Knizner at Springfield, I’m not sure the Cardinals would trade Kelly even up for Torres. Torres looks like a .270 batter that hits maybe 25 HR to me.
I don’t think anyone should underestimate the power of the New York media when it comes to hype.
I know small sample size, but I watch nearly every game. Kelley in his few chances to play has shown nothing. He looked anemic at the plate. Never seemed to make good contract. He Looked over matched.
MLB stats to date:
Avg .150 Obp .216 slug .187 OBS.402Hopefully what we have seen, is not the player who he really is.
Put me in the column of not impressed or excited. Nice to have a good defensive backup catcher.
Dave, I’m not sure I’d say that Carson’s small sample hitting performance is indicative of what he’ll be going forward.
If I had to surmise, I’d peg him for a slightly below average hitter in MLB going forward with maybe a few peaks of a bit above average. Not a ton of power, decent average, decent eye at the plate.
I hope I’m wrong. I have only seen his MLB ABs. But if you think what we have seen from him in the bigs is showing you something, you need to take the rose colored glasses off.
Yes his only 21, but I was expecting more from a top rated MLB prospect. Maybe, it’s just a matter of adjustments and he relaxes and we see a different story. Trust me I’m rooting for him.
But at some point(insert wong), you are what your record/ performance says you are.
O’Neil was better the second time around. We have a rare commodity in his power. Deserves a lot of patience. Bonus is that he is a good defensive player.
Mo has said that he looks for players that will have an impact long term. Not just looking for short term solutions. He has shown that in his trades that included
O’Neill, Munoz, Schrock, Yepez, Greene, etc. So it might be interesting to analyze where the needs are that may not be filled by the system over the next several years. A young top defensive SS?
A young third baseman who can plug the gap until Gorman is ready?
Another Hicks type?Two biggest holes going into next year are lefty relief and LH outfielder. The rest of our needs are upgrades.
The rest of our needs are upgrades.
Unfortunately, this front office prefers to “make do” rather than seek upgrades.
If we didn’t have Knizner at Springfield, I’m not sure the Cardinals would trade Kelly even up for Torres. Torres looks like a .270 batter that hits maybe 25 HR to me.
I don’t think anyone should underestimate the power of the New York media when it comes to hype.
Torres was very highly rated before he ever got to New York. He was the number one prospect in the Cubs system at the time.
I’m pretty sure the Cardinals would do a Kelly for Torres trade. If not, I would really like to hear that explanation.
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