August 7, 2019 at 11:10 pm #101412858booyahParticipantFree
I have said this time after time the last 2 seasons. He should be a late inning bullpen arm. Same with Poncedeleon and I said the same about Gant.
Reyes has an electric arm when healthy which hasn’t been much the past 3 seasons. Why not use him in a role where his stuff could thrive and maybe limit injury. I know the prep isn’t the same but clearly whatever we’ve been doing and he’s been doing hasn’t been working. Also get his head examined!August 8, 2019 at 2:09 am #101413Cardinal in FranceParticipantFree
I’m tired of and worrying about Reyes and talking like he is the savior of the team if only he gets right.August 8, 2019 at 7:59 am #101418OnyxgemParticipantFree
This is prime example of why trading prospects isn’t as bad as MO believes it to be, just can’t count on themAugust 8, 2019 at 8:14 am #101423BobParticipantPaid - Annual
I think the entire Cardinal nation is tired of the Reyes talk.
How’s he doing, is he throwing yet, is he healthy, when will he be back…
Ugh, we need to just leave the situation alone for a year and move on
to the guys who are playing everyday, and getting better.
If he comes back, great, if not that’s ok too.August 8, 2019 at 8:19 am #101425BobParticipantPaid - Annual
Forget about Reyes.
The Cards have several other pitchers coming up through the system
that can have a positive impact with the team. Sure, Reyes has/had an
electric arm, but injury again and again signal long term problems.
Lets get some youth injected into the pitching.
I liked the Junior promotion, but don’t stop at that: Get Woodford up
for an opportunity, he’s earned it. Hopefully Gomber will be ready soon,
and Ponce would be good out of the pen.August 8, 2019 at 8:30 am #1014261964cardsParticipantPaid - Annual
Hoping for a full and speedy recovery for Reyes. He and the training staff need to get him ready to go in the spring. Sort out his role in the organization then (starter or pen, keep or trade).August 8, 2019 at 8:33 am #101427
I’m off of the Reyes train. IF he ever pitches for us and does well it would be like getting a free arm. Until then he goes on the back burner… way back. Stretch out Helsley and stop toying with him. Can’t anyone run the farm system?August 8, 2019 at 9:21 am #101437gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
Well said everyone. I see no reason to even mention Reyes again until next February, assuming he even shows up in Jupiter.August 8, 2019 at 9:23 am #101438
Ny, you may have missed that Helsley is in the MLB bullpen. Are you suggesting he should be sent down to Memphis again to stretch out, or that they should try to stretch him out with St. Louis while they are in a pennant race? Sunday’s starter is “TBA”. Do you want to throw him in then?
Looking backward, we’ve discussed Helsley’s use this season extensively, but if you have new data as to how he has supposedly been “toyed with”, please share it. This is a common theme by some, but it seems backed by much more emotion than fact.
P.S. The argument from some is that his supposed changing role was an example of him being jerked around. Yet, you are proposing just that – that his role should be changed. For the record, Helsley was made a long reliever in April and has remained in that role ever since, except when he was back on the IL.August 8, 2019 at 9:28 am #101439gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
I would say there is 0.00% chance that Helsley is a starter in St. Louis this season, if ever. I don’t know why anyone would think different.
The club made the bold statement last week that Wacha is our number 5 guy. Everyone but Mo and Shildt knows that was a mistake but whatever. If anyone else gets a chance it would be Ponce or maybe Woodford. It won’t be Helsley.August 8, 2019 at 9:31 am #101440
Of course everyone will agree that Reyes should not be counted on for next season.
However, I had asked if anyone thinks he should be released. I guess what is being implied is that he should be kept around, but with very low (or no) expectations.August 8, 2019 at 9:37 am #101441
gscottar, there is a camp who believe that Helsley is being wasted as a reliever. Without understanding the condition of his shoulder, which caused him to miss much of last season and put him on the IL again this season, I am not among them.August 8, 2019 at 10:30 am #101445Cardinals27ParticipantPaid - Annual
I do not understand why a pitcher cannot change roles in the middle of the year. As long as your pitch count is gradually increased (to go from relief to starting), and you are effective. ALso, if anything is wrong with Helsley’s arm/shoulder, it was not apparent in his last outing, throwing 96-100, and having nice spin on his breaking ball. What sense does it make to trot out Wacha, be down 3 or 4 runs, and then bring in Helsley, or whomever? I don’t understand why Helsley can’t start the game, go as far as he can. If he has control I don’t see much of a difference between 3 innings and 5. If he struggles, bring in Wacha. Even more reason is that when Memphis’ season ends, PDL and Cabrera will be available as well.
I think it’s time to put the best hands on deck, as it were. thereby giving our playoff hopes a boost.August 8, 2019 at 10:40 am #101447
Cards27… that makes too much sense for this board.August 8, 2019 at 11:20 am #101450PadsFSParticipantFree
Absolutely no way you would release Reyes. The handwringing over trading him is laughable. You can’t predict these things. We’ve had two can-miss prospects that have missed hard in the last decade.
Reyes was on the same path as Giolito of the White Sox so this is unfortunate. I would have never looked at the two of them and thought, oh Reyes is the injury-prone one and Giolito is going to be solid.August 8, 2019 at 11:27 am #101454
Jamie Garcia, high starting pitcher prospect in late ’00s. Reaching St Louis ’08 he goes to the pen. Has surgery and misses ’09. Starts out ’10 in the rotation. Goes 13-8 and is 3rd in Rookie Of the Year balloting.
Lance Lynn, high starting pitching prospect in the early teens. 2011 arrives in St Louis and deposited into the pen. Begins ’12 in the pen until he gets a shot in the rotation. Goes 18-7 and is on the All-Star team by July.
These are examples of two persons that were meant to be starters, period. I’m not saying that they are relevant to the Helsley situation because all people are different. If a prospect is a starter throughout his minor league career, by getting to the big team he must have had success. Helsley is presently our #5 prospect. The organization has been wrong before.August 8, 2019 at 11:32 am #101455
C27, I was mostly trying to understand if trying Helsley as an opener in Wacha’s spot is what was being asked for. The earlier griping was vague. Sad that “this board” is maligned when folks are politely asked to explain themselves.
So, I guess making Helsley a reliever is jerking him around, but stretching him out from relieving to starting is not jerking him around. Makes no sense as an argument, but I have already made that point enough times.
I do agree the team should use him as they best see fit. I don’t sense the Cardinals are considering starting him with the vote of confidence to Wacha, but who knows what is ahead?August 8, 2019 at 11:35 am #101457
Trevor Rosenthal never pitched a game of relief in the minors and ended up being an All-Star and setting the team’s all-time single-season save record. I agree that all players cannot be painted with the same broad brush, so have no relevance to Helsley. A nice diversion down memory lane, though. 😉
P.S. The organization has a stated strategy that even if a pitcher is slated as a reliever in the majors, they start him in the minors as long as possible. That allows them to work on all of their pitches and gets them more scheduled innings.
My bottom line on Helsley, which I already said before, is that he is a valuable prospect. If they thought he could help St. Louis’ rotation this year, there would no logical reason to not do it. They have more information to guide them in their decisions than we do.August 8, 2019 at 12:36 pm #101466Cardinals27ParticipantPaid - Annual
It’s amazing that at the start of Spring Training we seemed to have an abundance of starting pitching. Yet, fast forward to now, with injuries to potential starters the only viable options are Helsley, Woodford, Cabrera, and PDL. PDL has been given a chance, albeit short, but was unable to stay in the rotation. Cabrera has great potential, but is clearly not ready, based upon his trial. Woodford has struggled down the stretch, otherwise he may have received the call. That leaves Helsley, who has an electric arm. I would much rather see Helsley start and go as long as he can perhaps in a bullpen game than keep Wacha in the rotation. That seems to be our best chance to win.August 10, 2019 at 7:20 am #101588
Back to Reyes
BenFred: Reyes’ future remains cloudy, but his talent begs for more time
Ben Frederickson is a sports columnist for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.
A few excerpts from his article today in the Post-Dispatch
Where is Alex Reyes?
More importantly, where are the Cardinals headed with him?
Shildt said Friday that the soon-to-be 25-year-old righthander will seek a second medical opinion on the latest in a series of physical setbacks that have combined to limit Reyes to 53 career innings in the major leagues, and just seven since 2018.
“It looks like nothing has changed dramatically, one way or the other,” Shildt said. “The good news is there is nothing more significant.”
“From everything we’ve seen and checked out from our medical side, he’s just not recovered and has not taken the next step forward,” Shildt added. “But nothing’s gone backward.”
Shildt was not ready to eliminate Reyes as a potential relief option for this season, but signs continue to point toward his shelving. Again.
Because he was on the major-league roster at the time of his Tommy John surgery in 2017 and his back injury in 2018, Reyes is on the cusp of a raise through arbitration, meaning the cost-conscious Cardinals soon will have to increase the salary of a question-mark pitcher who has averaged fewer than six major-league appearances per season since 2016.
Whenever Reyes comes off the injured list, he must have a place on the 40-man roster. The Cardinals could not remove him without passing him through waivers and opening a window for another team to acquire him.
Another team would acquire him, right?
Reyes’ stuff still is there.
“If he was on the team tomorrow, he might have the best stuff here,” Cardinals pitcher Jack Flaherty reminded.
Reyes has hurt himself at times, first with a failed marijuana test that resulted in a 2015 suspension, and much more recently with the hand injury caused by his own frustration. His punching of a wall after a bad minor-league outing in April broke his non-pitching pinkie and raised questions about how his series of setbacks are weighing on him.
While questions about his performance usually move in lockstep with the ups and downs of his health, Reyes’ departure from St. Louis this season came from his struggles on the mound, not his struggle to stay on it. After securing a place in the Cardinals’ bullpen out of spring training, Reyes lost his grip on a high-leverage relief role because he could not command his repertoire of plus pitches. He walked six men in three innings before the Cardinals sent him to Class AAA Memphis for a tune-up. He never returned.
Reyes punched the wall in late April. He hit a more familiar one in late June.
Reyes’ health problems resurfaced. The trouble has seemed to radiate, from elbow to back, to this most recent pectoral problem. The search for answers continues to chase a moving target. If Reyes’ 2019 season is over, it ended with a 15.00 ERA in the majors and a 7.39 ERA in 10 appearances (28 innings) at Class AAA.
Soon the Cardinals will have to determine if Reyes’ unfulfilled potential deserves more commitment. The easiest way to decide is by answering one simple question.
Is the cost of the Reyes waiting game worth the possibility of seeing him finally break through with the Cardinals?
If you take the time to imagine his comeback coming to fruition somewhere else, the answer is yes.
The Cardinals no longer can count on Reyes, but this wild-card deserves more time.August 10, 2019 at 8:32 am #101601stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
I had thought that because Reyes was not on the MLB roster when he had his latest injury, he was not going to meet the service time requirements for going to arbitration this year. Is that wrong? Because I’ve seen a lot of folks since the news that he’s probably done for the year mentioning that he’s due for arb this winter and I feel like that is incorrect.
Brian…?August 10, 2019 at 8:57 am #101609
You are correct, stlcard25. The above article is misleading at best (wrong IMO) on the point. Even if Reyes made a miraculous recovery and returned to the MLB roster today, he would not be eligible for arbitration until at least the 2021 season. Misinformed sense of urgency.August 10, 2019 at 9:05 am #101610stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
Thanks for the clarification, Brian. If there’s anything good about this lost season, I guess it’s that he did most of his sitting off the MLB roster so at least he’s got 4 years left. What we may get out of him in those 4 years is anyone’s guess.August 10, 2019 at 9:11 am #101611
More of the same… “on the cusp of a raise through arbitration”, “about to become more complicated”… etc.
“A future that once crackled with optimism now is clouded with uncertainty,” writes @ben_fred. “What to do with Reyes is about to become a more complicated conversation.”#cardinals #stlcards #MLB https://t.co/jzCayl3n4V
— Derrick Goold (@dgoold) August 10, 2019August 10, 2019 at 9:34 am #101612bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
Always a tough call with this guy. You just don’t know if you will have a Sandy Koufax on your staff from say ages 27-32, or if you will have Rick Ankiel.
At this point I think you have to stick with him a couple more years and see how it plays out, keeping in mind you may never see any return on the investment.
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