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Can you expect the Cards to be on paper in the top 2 or 3 teams every year? With revenues in the middle of the pack? How does that work?
When your goal is to make money, then you’ll aak questions like that. When your goal is to provide the best quality product, then the questions will be different. The Cards can provide a quality product and make money…but without a doubt they look to the money first. Payroll is projected to be 15th for the coming year. Is that fair to a team that consistently tops the TV ratings in their market and has more fans attending their games than any team but the Dodgers?
Not sure if you are talking to anyone specifically, bccran. I didn’t see anyone ask for them to spend at that level every year. On the other hand, the overall profitability of this (and most other franchises) include other investments beyond baseball-related revenue. If the Cardinals chose to, they could spend significantly more on payroll and neither reach the MLB penalty level nor take a loss (a real loss, not an on-paper one). But they don’t have to. The fans fill the stadium and the TV ratings are high as it is. My guess is that the playoffs themselves aren’t a huge profitability factor for the team. The players get 50-60% of the gate revenue.
25….Great post and disturbing to me daily. Until the mindset of this inactive FO changes same result each year.
Larry, the FO spends to the level ownership allows. If the team makes bad signings and trades that waste money, blame the FO. But if your issue is that the payroll is too low, that is on ownership.
Okay, 25 and BW. Here’s the list of MLB total team revenues for 2022 (down to where the Cardinals rank) –
1.) Dodgers – $565 million
2.) Yankees – $485 million
3.) Red Sox – $479 million
4.) Braves – $443 million
5.) Cubs – $425 million
6.) Astros – $388 million
7.) Rangers – $387 million
8.) Giants – $384 million
9.) Angels – $331 million
10.) Phillies – $323 million
11.) Nationals – $322 million
12.) Mariners – $313 million
13.) Mets – $302 million
14.) Cardinals – $287 million3,000,000+ fans or not, those are the facts.
So let me ask you this. How in the world do you expect the Cardinals to go out into the market and buy enough high priced FA players to appear on paper as a hands down World Series caliber team every season? They do it the way they can – produce a competitive team that can make the playoffs every season and hope the team in October is both healthy and gets hot. Draft well enough (even though they’re in the bottom half of each round) to produce enough players that are good enough to make the major league roster some day or can be valuable trade chips.
The problem is a system that doesn’t have a hard salary cap like the NFL. I don’t know how the Mets can afford a payroll of over $400 million going into 2023. That payroll is more than the total REVENUES of half the MLB teams.
It’s gotten way out of whack.This is an interesting discussion. Sorry I am just now jumping on board.
It has been obvious the last decade that the Cardinal strategy has been to build a team good enough to win the division or at least a wild card spot then hope for the best in the playoffs. There is some evidence that suggests that this is not a bad strategy due to the randomness of the playoffs, especially if you have the dual objective of building a team with a winning record and being very healthy financially. The Cardinal pitching staff reflects this strategy. Our rotation is mostly a bunch of 3’s and 4’s, although some have the talent to be a 2. That kind of rotation is well suited to compete over 162 games but it does lessen your margin of error in the playoffs when going up against teams with aces.
But there is some definite randomness to the playoffs. If Helsley doesn’t suffer a freak injury in Pittsburgh a few days before our playoff game then he is probably fully healthy and blows the Phillies away in Game 1, which would have changed the dynamic of the series, and we are probably having a different discussion. But that does illustrate our small margin of error against aces. The Cardinal brass apparently feels comfortable rolling the dice like that because last year the Mets, Dodgers, and Yankees all had payrolls in the $250M range or higher and none of the three ended up in the World Series.
Of course, those are revenue estimates because MLB team books ARE NOT PUBLIC. Expenses are not estimated nor are non-team revenues, such as Ballpark Village.
It is interesting that your list has the Mets just ahead of the Cardinals. How can they afford to commit $400 million, you ask? Because ownership is willing to invest more to try to win a title.
But, hey, I bet the Cards will be more profitable than the Mets in 2022.
The Dodgers did win recently, in 2020. The 2022 champion Astros were a dominant team all year long (with the help of a roster partially built through tanking). Sure, a wild card team like the Phillies (or the 2011 Cards) can have a nice run now and then, but the teams with the best chances of winning it all typically are the bigger spenders (not necessarily the absolute biggest).
I am not suggesting the Cardinals should spend the most. I just think they could spend more than they choose. But I get why they don’t feel they have to.
We would have two aces right now had we not made one lousy trade for an injured MOTO bat.
That trade helped us get back into the playoffs, but it is costing us now.
For all those people wishing the Cardinals would just trade for a top-of-the-line starter, be careful what you wish for.
Good point, LA. Wouldn’t it be interesting to have Alcantara,
Gallen, and a healthy Flaherty in the rotation in 2023. Just goes to show that they probably need to find (some way) top of rotation starters through the draft or through trade. But not by signing guys who make $40 million per year. They just can’t afford that.One quick question. Would the following be considered an “ace”?
Games – 32
Record – 18-4
ERA – 2.83
WHIP – 1.071
6th in the CYA voting?One quick question. Would the following be considered an “ace”?
Games – 32
Record – 18-4
ERA – 2.83
WHIP – 1.071
6th in the CYA voting?5 years ago, sure.
LACardFan
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We would have two aces right now had we not made one lousy trade for an injured MOTO bat.I don’t like this line of thinking, because Mozeliak traded other ‘potential aces’ in Weaver and Gomber to land Goldschmidt and Arenado. In pre-2018, we had Alcantara rated as the #8 prospect, Gallen at #9, and Gomber at #10. Weaver was at #2 the prior offseason.
My point is, 25, that you don’t need to spend $200 million
to find an ace. You can internally develop guys like Flaherty, Alcantara, and Gallen, and you can look to the international market.Thanks bccran! No doubt, revenues play a big part in financing salaries. It is also important to consider the strategic intent of the ownership group or owner.
– For example, the Ricketts family paid $900M for the Cubs. They are motivated to win as well as earn a return on their investment. So, the bottom line is very important to them. They will strike a balance between funding a winning team and earning a return.
– The Mets are owned by a billionaire that wants to win and win now. The return the club earns appears to be less important than winning the National League and potentially the World Series. Of course, Cohen understands that sustained winning drives improved revenues and profitability.I feel the actions of the Dewitt family more closely align with the approach being taken by the Ricketts family … only in a smaller market. As Bccran says, we cannot expect Cardinal ownership to pursue top end free agents.
MLB needs to study the NFL and NBA business models if they want to improve parity. This means a hard salary cap coupled with revenue sharing. I am not sure all owners or the MLBPA would agree to these changes.
Why not sign Verlander for two years? It worked for Houston
Because at an AAV of $43M that would put the Cardinals very near the luxury tax line, which is somewhere they don’t want to be.
Oh, I don’t know Oliver. Maybe the Cardinals felt that spending $43,333,333.00 per year was a little too much.
– The Mets are owned by a billionaire that wants to win and win now. The return the club earns appears to be less important than winning the National League and potentially the World Series. Of course, Cohen understands that sustained winning drives improved revenues and profitability.
One thing that seems to set Cohen apart is that he grew up as a Mets fan and has followed them all of his life. His spending decisions reflect what a fan would do, which is just go buy all of the best players. I am not saying this is right or wrong but that most owners are more detached than that. To them their team is a business that should be ran like a business and they may not have had much interest in it growing up.
BDW, Jr. grew up in St. Louis as a big Cardinal fan and has followed them all of his life. But he’s also a conservative businessman who believes in consistency. He also doesn’t have arguably the largest market in baseball.
Bc, I agree that the draft is the best place to find an ace. However, who is currently ready to be our Ace in 2023 that was drafted by the Cardinals? Flaherty would qualify if he is healthy. But once again we are hoping for his shoulder be to healthy. Is that a good bet?
My point is, 25, that you don’t need to spend $200 million
to find an ace. You can internally develop guys like Flaherty, Alcantara, and Gallen, and you can look to the international market.There’s nothing wrong with development and the Cards should continue to do so. Yet…when you see the gaping hole right around the corner and know that you don’t have any real hope of getting past it with your internal options…you’ve got to go outside. The Cards could spend that $200M on guys like Leake, Fowler and Mikolas and get what they’ve gotten…or grab a guy like Rodon who could struggle or could be their ace for 5+ years.
I know as BDW’s friend you are going to make the choice that he would…some of us would like a little more risk that pays off in reward, once in a while.
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