- This topic has 202 replies, 26 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 6 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Bc
I think I recall us having the same or a similar discussion before last season and the Cards had to go get not one but two starters at the trade deadline.
If they go get a better starting pitcher right now then someone gets bumped to the pen and / or AAA and / or is traded as a part of the deal to bring in said pitcher.
If we get to the trade deadline and injuries / underperformance have not decimated the staff then the Cards would be in a position to trade the surplus arm(s) for something that they need.
Steve60, this team as it is currently situated needs to have good to great seasons from 3 starters while Flaherty stays healthy and pitches like an ace. Then we have a chance. I am an optimist but I am also a realist who says having above normal seasons from 80% of the entire team (pitching and batting) is not going to happen.
Forsch31, I’m a realist I think! If you go back and look at our last 10 playoff games our starting pitcher against there’s they had an advantage in almost every game! Our guys might have pitched well or over there heads but the other starter was better! That makes it very difficult to win! We need at least 2 starters we can put out there and think to ourselves, this guy can go against anybody and win! Carpenter comes to mind! I seriously doubt Flaherty is ever gonna be that guy again! Right now winning the division and getting to the playoffs is enough for most! I’m getting older now and I’d like to see one more flag go up before, you know! For that to happen whether by trade or FA we need to get some aces!
We’re not going to get “Aces” Just guys who give us quality starts both during the regular season and in the playoffs.
Well, Wainwright placed 2nd and 3rd in the NL CYA voting in both ’13 and ’14 and went 19-9 and 20-9 respectively in those two seasons. He also went 17-7 as recently as ’21 and placed 7th in the NL CYA voting that year. Poor old guy must feel like Rodney Dangerfield…
Waino was definitely an ace as well, but he missed the entire 2011 season that resulted in our last title. The Cards really haven’t had multiple top tier starters in the same year since 2010, and the results have been predictably short of the Albert Pujols era.
and that’s been so successful in the playoffs since our last true ace Carpenter.
There was nothing wrong with our starting pitching this past post season. We lost game one because our closer failed. We lost game two because our offense failed. Our middle of the order sluggers especially stunk. If we can fix those two things, then maybe in 2023 post season we will go deep enough for our rotation to fail.
If we can fix those two things,
Those two things are not so much things to fix as they are random variance. The rotation, however…is definitely something to fix. Facing two bonafide aces in the postseason tends to suppress your offense and when you’re countering two #1s with a #3 and #4, you’re going to lose the series more often than not. The Phillies probably win that series 7 out of 10 times if we could play it that many times.
We were out pitched, any way you look at it, and would have been in every series going forward.
I would argue that we lost game 1 because of some questionable decisions by our manager: Lineup construction, SP pulled after only 75 pitches, using an injured closer for too long.
Well, that’s essentially what I was driving at. I’d have to say that in both ’13 and ’14 the Redbirds possessed the proverbial top of the rotation, stopper sort of SP’er and nevertheless, came up a bit short. What I’m trying to illustrate is that there’s no guarantee that that type of pitcher will lead you to the promised land. Everyone thought that game #7 of both the ’68 and ’85 WS was automatically stamped with a W when the baseball was handed to Bob Gibson and John Tudor, but the script wasn’t followed as written.
Having one gives you a better shot. But whatever they will keep doing the same no doubt. And fans here are good with the strategy.
I doesn’t matter to me how many aces had poor outings. An ace still gives the team a better shot at winning the game, on average. Everyone can have a poor outing at any time. The ace has fewer of them. Of course, the team can continue to go with a pitching staff that gives the team a lower probability of winning.
Offseason baseball trivia…Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz were pretty good. With those three names occupying the 5 man, how many WS Championships did the Atl. Braves win?
Seems to me like Quintana and Mikolas gave us pretty decent starts against the Phils. In the aggregate something like 9-10 innings with giving up only 2 runs? Is that “ace” quality?
Would you define an “ace” of any rotation as the SP’er who gets the baseball on opening day?
Nope. I’d call an ace one of the top 30 pitchers in the league. Some teams have more than one of those.
More specifically, an ace is the type of guy you’d expect to take the ball in game one of a playoff series and give you a legitimate chance to shut down a strong opposing lineup. Any pitcher could pitch like an ace on any given day…but the best of the best can repeat it for a long time and especially when the season is on the line.
Here’s my list of aces at the moment in the big leagues:
Verlander
Nola
Rodon
Alcantara
Gausman
Bieber
Burnes
Woodruff
Manoah
Cole
Wheeler
Scherzer
DeGrom
Ohtani
Fried
Cole
CeaseThere are a few other guys who are on the border…call them #1s but not quite aces. They could get there (or get back there) with a little more proving:
Strider
Urias
Buehler
Giolito
McKenzie
Castillo
Darvish
Snell
McLanahan
Webb
Gallen
WrightKershaw is sort of in a class by himself…great still, but fragile. The Cards have a number of guys who fall outside this group, but are solid #2/3 types. Waino, Mikolas, Monty. Only Flaherty really has the #1 chops.
More offseason baseball trivia…In 2 GS in the ’06 NLCS which clinched that same season’s NL Pennant this Cardinal pitcher worked a total of 15 IP’ed in which he allowed only 1 run on 5 hits and posted an ERA of 0.60. Who was this “ace” Redbird SP’er?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.