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No way Thompson is ranked above Carlson, at least here. Gorman started at 4th last year, albeit against a stronger system. Roberts started 9th, and Baker 14th last year remember that Roberts was a competitive balance pick).
If I’m guessing, Thompson slots 4th or 5th behind Gorman, Carlson, Knizner and maybe Montero (I’d have him 5th but I could see Montero dropping). Fletcher probably in the 10-15th spot and Locey somewhere around 30-35th. That would be somewhat similar to last year while accepting that the system is quite a bit weaker than a year ago.
I’d have Thompson in the 6-8 range alongside Malcom Nunez & Julio Rodriguez, in the 100-120 range among all prospects.
Gorman roughly 30th overall
Carlson 40th
Herrera 60th
Montero 65th
Knizner 70thThen the three aforementioned. And then a laaarge dropoff to I’m not sure who. Maybe no one else is a top 200 type right now, unless I’m forgetting somebody. Love how Angel Rondon is pitching, and how Arozarena is hitting — but Randy is 24 and already tore up AA last year, so what is he doing there anyway? Urias has been a big disappointment to me, and Helsey’s a reliever now. Lane Thomas might be ninth-best…or Sosa, or Edman, or, or, or.
Since this is a draft thread, I’ll just add that during the Mo era (2008-present) the Cardinals have not had a single college pitcher turn into an MLB starter — unless he was drafted in the first round. First round record, absolutely fantastic. Weaver, Gonzales, Hudson, Lance Lynn, Michael Wacha. Seth Blair is the only non-success story. It’s a tremendous track record.
But all other college arms have busted or been relievers. Every single one.
Gomber or Zac Gallen may change that, but right now it is a pretty stark record of mediocrity. Which is why I despised the Cardinal draft fixation on college arms this year to the exclusion of almost everything else. Drafting for need is a fool’s errand, and the front office was foolish in spades this year.
Cardinals have also signed:
OF Patrick Romeri (12th)
INF Brylie Ware (23rd)
RHP Cameron Dulle (30th)
INF Chandler Redmond (32nd).Sommers’ bonus amount is around $10K. I know Romeri signed for overslot but I’m not sure the amount right now.
Romeri signed for $200,000.
Cardinals have $6,818,500 remaining and if they want to go over 5% they have $7,163,675 remaining.
Thanks much for the updates, Black Hills.
Just a quick addendum to my earlier remarks. Here are the top 10 career WAR totals per Baseball Reference.com of college players drafted after the first round during the Mo years:
1) Matt Carpenter (13th round) 26.5 WAR
2) Paul DeJong (4th) 9.4
3) Matt Adams (23rd) 5.8
4) Joe Kelly (3rd) 5.6
5) Harry Bader (3rd) 5.1
6) Greg Garcia (7th) 3.8
7) Luke Voit (22nd) 2.8
8) Sam Freeman (32nd) 2.7
9) Seth Maness (11th) 2.1
10) Kyle Bearclaw (7th) 2.0According to us, too!
So that means we have signed:
#1 – Thompson
#10 – Sommers
#12 – Romeri
#23 – Ware
#24 – Guay
#30 – Dulle
#32 – RedmondUnless I have missed someone or someone has jumped the gun on who we have signed.
Forsch, the Cardinals have actually signed 14 draft picks. Brian miss counted in his article. The 14 number comes from the Cardinals own tweets.
Here’s the list of signed picks:
1 Thompson
5 Thomas
9 Lott
10 Sommers
12 Romeri
15 Vinsky
23 Ware
24 Guay
29 Politz
30 Dulle
32 Redman
33 Green
34 Baird
36 SkeelsLooks like they even saved a chunk of change on Thompson with his $3M signing bonus. The 9th rounder, Lott, signed for the full slot value. Not sure what Thomas got.
Here’s something I’ve using and posting in other message boards. I find it be pretty informative and handy. So, since I’m using this on Gateway Redbirds and CardsTalk I figured I could share it here as well.
Players in BOLD will indicate the players that have signed.
2019 Cardinals Draft Picks
ROUND (#) | NAME | POSITION | PROJECTED BONUS (SIGNED AMOUNT) | DATE SIGNED
1 (19), Zack Thompson, LHP, $3,359,000 ($3,000,000), 06/11/2019
2 (58), Trejyn Fletcher, CF, $1,214,300
3 (96), Tony Locey, RHP, $604,800
4 (125), Andre Pallante, RHP, $455,600
5 (155), Connor Thomas, LHP, $340,000 (???), 06/11/2019
6 (185), Pedro Pages, C, $261,600
7 (215), Jack Ralston, RHP, $204,800
8 (245), Logan Gragg, RHP, $167,800
9 (275), Todd Lott, OF, $152,000 ($152,000), 06/11/2019
10 (305), Jake Sommers, RHP, $143,600 ($10,000), 06/10/2019BONUS POOL……………………………………………. $6,903,500
BONUS POOL PLUS 5%………………………………………$7,248,675
SUBTOTAL……………………………………………….$3,162,000
Above Slot (Round 11-40)…………………………………$75,000
REMAINING POOL………………………………………….$3,666,500
REMAINING POOL PLUS 5%…………………………………..$4,011,675Draft Picks in Rounds 11-40 can sign for $125,000. Anything over that goes against Draft Signing Bonus Pool.
ROUND (#) | NAME | POSITION | (SIGNED AMOUNT) | DATE SIGNED
11 (335), Connor Lunn, RHP
12 (365), Patrick Romeri, RF, ($200,000), 06/10/2019
13 (395), Tommy Jew, CF
14 (425), Tyler Statler, RHP
15 (455), David Vinsky, OF, 06/11/2019
16 (485), Thomas Hart, RHP
17 (515), Michael YaSenka, RHP
18 (545), Aaron Antonini, C
19 (575), Zarion Sharpe, LHP
20 (605), Adrian Mardueno, RHP
21 (635), Jack Owen, LHP
22 (665), Zade Richardson, C
23 (695), Brylie Ware, 3B, 06/10/2019
24 (725), Will Guay, RHP, 06/10/2019
25 (755), Alexander McFarlane, RHP
26 (785), Jeremy Randolph, RHP
27 (815), Eric Lex, RHP
28 (845), Tyler Peck, RHP
29 (875), Scott Politz, RHP, 06/11/2019
30 (905), Cameron Dulle, RHP, 06/10/2019
31 (935), Dylan Pearce, RHP
32 (965), Chandler Redman, 2B, 06/10/2019
33 (995), Anthony Green, RHP, 06/11/2019
34 (1025), Ben Baird, SS, 06/11/2019
35 (1055), Logan Hoffman, RHP
36 (1085), Kyle Skeels, C, 06/11/2019
37 (1115), Chris Newell, LHP
38 (1145), Kurtis Byrne, C
39 (1175), T.J. McKenzie, SS
40 (1205), Cash Rugely, SSA minor correction. I did not “miss count”. The Cardinals made several tweets with additional draftees after I had posted. In a change from past years, they are making multiple disclosures per day with none in press releases other than the first rounder.
Brian posted an article with Sooner yesterday regarding potential bonus savings. Looking at BHC’s chart, you’d think most any savings that do come would have to be going to Fletcher (he might take $2M from what some have said). Ralston is probably in line for a $10K payday, and the 5th and 6th rounders may offer savings as well. The 14th and 16th round guys will probably take some cash, and should they not be able to agree with Fletcher, maybe McFarlane, Newell or McKenzie come into play.
Keep in mind if they fail to sign Fletcher (I’m confident they will sign him) they lose his portion of the bonus pool.
Bleacher Report has done a ranking of post-draft MLB farm systems, and the top-10 ranking for each team.
ST. Louis’ top-10 prospects
1. Gorman (TCN #1)
2. Carlson (#3)
3. Knizner (#4)
4. Helsley (#5)
5. Montero (#2)
6. Arozarena (#12)
7. Thompson (draft)
8. IHerrera (#11)
9. JTorres (#17)
10. Nunez (#7)Team rankings:
1.SD
2.ATL
3.TB
4.TOR
5.SEA
6.CIN
7.CWS
8.HOU
9.LAD
10.MIN
11.DET
12.ARI
13.BAL
14.PHI
15.NYM
16.PIT
17.OAK
18.COL
19.KC
20.NYY
21.LAA
22.SF
23.MIA
24.CLE
25.STL
26.MIL
27.WAS
28.CHC
29.TEX
30.BOSWhat TCN has been saying for some time now is coming to fruition. There has been a misconception that the FO in the last several seasons has produced a farm system that is well-stocked with top prospects and elite arms when needed at the top.
The reality is that the organization is trending downward evidenced by the general lack of success at each level of the full season team. Its not just the poor W-L #s and standings but many prospects have not shown solid progression.
I get annoyed when I hear what a great minor league system that Mozeliak has put together. It would appear now that if he is not be with the team in ’20-’21-’22, his replacement will have to be someone who can revitalize the whole system. Mo will be leaving a mess to be cleaned up.
Those that follow the affiliates all love our top-10 prospects but when compared to other MLB teams they are not as great as we make them out to be.
And while I’m here… I am sick and tired of statements praising Mozeliak for what he did during the playoff streak. Well and good, but not pertinent to what the Cardinals and the affiliates look like now.
And while I’m here… I am sick and tired of statements praising Mozeliak for what he did during the playoff streak. Well and good, but not pertinent to what the Cardinals and the affiliates look like now.
I have been saying this for months but I routinely get blasted for being too negative.
Ny and gscottar I’m pretty much with you. When you basically have to allocate an entire draft to restock the organizations pitching depth there are major problems.
“Hatred corrodes the container in which it is carried.” – George W Bush
No need to get ones knickers twisted over something you can’t control.Cards rank by rookie WAR each season, 2014-18: 12, 4, 3, 4, 5. The total ranks 3rd behind the Dodgers and Yankees. Isn’t that the point of the system-to produce MLB level talent? I wouldn’t say that the Cards drafted poorly or failed to develop talent lately. For whatever reason, some of that talent has stalled at the big league level, but there have been some notable misses. I’d also point out that it seems like the ranking systems have been consistently underrating Cardinal prospects, just based on the continual production that never seems to result in a high ranking. So perhaps we have that at play here as well?
One year ago, the Cards’ young pitching looked like the envy of clubs everywhere. Now it looks like they may not turn a single top of the rotation starter out of the group of Flaherty, Hudson, Reyes, Weaver, Gomber, Ponce, Helsley and Cabrera. Such is baseball on the prospect level. It happens.
A point I have always made is that we largely rely on home grown talent. But once a rookie loses his prospect status, that is not to say he isn’t valuable, whether he is a starter or a backup.
Players in BOLD will indicate the players that have signed.
2019 Cardinals Draft Picks
ROUND (#) | NAME | POSITION | PROJECTED BONUS (SIGNED AMOUNT) | DATE SIGNED1 (19), Zack Thompson, LHP, $3,359,000 ($3,000,000), 06/11/2019
2 (58), Trejyn Fletcher, CF, $1,214,300 ($1,500,000), 06/12/2019
3 (96), Tony Locey, RHP, $604,800 (????), 06/12/2019
4 (125), Andre Pallante, RHP, $455,600
5 (155), Connor Thomas, LHP, $340,000 (????), 06/11/2019
6 (185), Pedro Pages, C, $261,600 (????), 06/12/2019
7 (215), Jack Ralston, RHP, $204,800
8 (245), Logan Gragg, RHP, $167,800
9 (275), Todd Lott, OF, $152,000 ($152,000), 06/11/2019
10 (305), Jake Sommers, RHP, $143,600 ($10,000), 06/10/2019BONUS POOL………………………………………….$6,903,500
BONUS POOL PLUS 5%…………………………………..$7,248,675
SUBTOTAL……………………………………………$4,662,000
Above Slot (Round 11-40)……………………………..$75,000
REMAINING POOL………………………………………$2,166,500
REMAINING POOL PLUS 5%……………………………….$2,511,675Draft Picks in Rounds 11-40 can sign for $125,000. Anything over that goes against Draft Signing Bonus Pool.
ROUND (#) | NAME | POSITION | (SIGNED AMOUNT) | DATE SIGNED
11 (335), Connor Lunn, RHP
12 (365), Patrick Romeri, RF, ($200,000), 06/10/2019
13 (395), Tommy Jew, CF
14 (425), Tyler Statler, RHP
15 (455), David Vinsky, OF, 06/11/2019
16 (485), Thomas Hart, RHP
17 (515), Michael YaSenka, RHP
18 (545), Aaron Antonini, C, 06/12/2019
19 (575), Zarion Sharpe, LHP
20 (605), Adrian Mardueno, RHP, 06/12/2019
21 (635), Jack Owen, LHP
22 (665), Zade Richardson, C
23 (695), Brylie Ware, 3B, 06/10/2019
24 (725), Will Guay, RHP, 06/10/2019
25 (755), Alexander McFarlane, RHP
26 (785), Jeremy Randolph, RHP
27 (815), Eric Lex, RHP
28 (845), Tyler Peck, RHP, 06/12/2019
29 (875), Scott Politz, RHP, , 06/11/2019
30 (905), Cameron Dulle, RHP, 06/10/2019
31 (935), Dylan Pearce, RHP
32 (965), Chandler Redman, 2B, 06/10/2019
33 (995), Anthony Green, RHP, 06/11/2019
34 (1025), Ben Baird, SS, 06/11/2019
35 (1055), Logan Hoffman, RHP
36 (1085), Kyle Skeels, C, 06/11/2019
37 (1115), Chris Newell, LHP
38 (1145), Kurtis Byrne, C
39 (1175), T.J. McKenzie, SS
40 (1205), Cash Rugely, SS
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