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Bc for now it does.
I’d like to see other pitchers on the list besides Mikolas and Matz and they also need to add a big OF/DH bat to hit in the 3-5 bo slot.
As noted, that may be a good current state representation. But I don’t think the fans will come back if the Cardinals do nothing from year to year to try to improve other than let Goldy and Lynn go.
They need a splash to generate enthusiasm and sell tickets (not to mention to help the anemic offense). Would a front office and coaching shake up be enough? I sense not.
Picking up Gibson’s option puts us at $145M or roughly $35M to spend with a rather mediocre lineup and pitching staff.
I liked the idea of picking up Santander, but he’s had a career year now and I don’t really like losing our 2nd round pick every year.
Santander is not happening if Gibson’s option is picked up. Hahaha! You must have missed the Cardinals payroll stance at the deadline in 2024.
The only prayer to have at something like that is cutting loose of every FA we have upcoming. Then you have raises to the Arby eligible guys and let’s call that about 16-18 million with Helsley’s due a big raise. Then you have the money but it still doesn’t solve the roster issues we have and the payroll flexibility they want moving forward with an uncertain payroll stream (Bally’s).
They need to trim some fat off this team..not necessarily payroll but the lingering issue of the multiple future first base or DH’s they have either in the minors or on the current roster.
I’m going to throw it out again but Luis Robert is the play and you have a pool of players like Walker, Gorman, Herrera, Baker, Noot to start a talking point along with some lower level pitching prospects that project at least back end starters. Robert is only making 15 million next year with 2 club options that are only 20 mil a year or a 2 mil buyout. It’s the exact low level commitment that this team is looking for. If he bombs or is injured all the time then you cut him loose and pay 2 million and if he plays in 120 games and cracks 30 homers and drives in 90 with a over .800 ops you have a 20 mil option each season after 25.
I am not opposed to bringing Gibson back. They can afford that if they let Goldy walk and would still have $20M-25M to find a big bat.
Robert has huge potential but is also a serious injury risk. I like Santander, but as was mentioned, we would have to forfeit a draft pick yet once again. A build from within organization can’t do that every single year like we do.
858booyah
Santander is not happening if Gibson’s option is picked up. Hahaha! You must have missed the Cardinals payroll stance at the deadline in 2024.
The only prayer to have at something like that is cutting loose of every FA we have upcoming. Then you have raises to the Arby eligible guys and let’s call that about 16-18 million with Helsley’s due a big raise. Then you have the money but it still doesn’t solve the roster issues we have and the payroll flexibility they want moving forward with an uncertain payroll stream (Bally’s).
Couple things. What free agents are you referring to being interested in re-signing?
My numbers were after arbitration. We wouldn’t be just dropping Goldschmidt. We are losing Edman (9.5M), Carlson (2-4M arb), Pham, Crawford, Carpenter, Lynn (10M) Middleton (5M), Gallegos (5.5M), Dejong (2M buyout), Armstrong, Kittredge (2.6M) ~ about $60M off the $180M payroll.
Arb guys are roughly Donovan +2M, Nootbaar +2M, Pallante +1M, Helsley +4M, Romero +1M = total of about 10M
Add in Gray +$15M ~ and you have $35M (with Gibson) to spend in free agency or trades…unless they are cutting payroll, which is a different thing than what they said at the deadline.
Are you talking about the Luis Robert with an OPS+ 88 and 35% K rate?
No they would be hoping for the guy who in 2023 that had an OPS+ of 130 and received MVP votes. The question is which version of the player are you getting and can he stay healthy?
A dose of reality… My interpretation of “recalibrate a little bit” is to cut payroll.
This is from Mozeliak on KMOX Sunday morning,
'Obviously our fanbase is not happy with our current product' John Mozeliak discusses recent attendance at #STLCards home gameshttps://t.co/itlkfcEa9E
— KMOX St. Louis News (@kmoxnews) September 3, 2024
They have been recalibrating for several years IMO but tomayto tomotto. If they are reducing payroll then why on earth would there be considerations of bringing Goldy back or was Goold just spitballing that day?
gscottar, continuing to make guesses, I predict that from a PR perspective, the Cardinals will let it be known that they made an offer to Goldy after he reaches free agency. It may be a low-ball one that he does not accept, but then they can say they tried.
Or maybe they will just announce from the start that they “recalibrated” him out of their plans.
I think if they bring Goldy back, it will be on a one year $5 million “make good” contract.
But they can just as well cover first with Burleson & Baker next year. Not saying they are as good defensively, but offensively they might outweight the negative defensive value.
I agree with Brian, I see them dropping payroll next year by at least $10-20 million.
They are going to have to do a lot better at finding “bargain” free agents, since nobody in Memphis is really making a case.
On the positive side, if they do go the bargain route, they won’t give up their second round pick in the draft!
The TV deal is going to be the scapegoat for whatever issues come up in the next 3-5 years, for sure. It doesn’t bode the fact that the team had all the goodwill in the world following the magical 2022 season and then squandered it. The good news for those of us who follow the farm system is that we might get to follow a whole lot more of the farmhands on the big league roster for the years ahead.
Cardinal fans have already been warned by Billy Jr’s sprout, so they have no choice but to significantly reduce payroll in order to drive home their point and punish fans for not showing up at the ballpark to watch a baseball team that can’t contend. They have to be taught a hard lesson or they’ll do it again…
I built my roster on the member forum at 150mil. Don’t ask me to be surprised.
Bills broke is the lead PR line. A restructure of the budget makes the most sense.
The above sounds just like a broken record, that I’m sure has grown stale. That’s enough of that!
After awhile, watching a dog chase his tail loses it’s humor, and my attention.
If they are truly reducing payroll then all the more reason to beg LA to take Arenado’s contract. If we can miss the playoffs with him then we can miss the playoffs without him. Stick Gorman at 3B and let the recalibration begin.
Willie Jr. could very well be near broke. The other day I drove by a boarded up Arby’s that had thistle and various other unsightly weeds taking over around the neglected building and parking lot. In my view, Arby’s serves up a lousy product so it doesn’t surprise me too much when one goes belly up…
If they are truly reducing payroll then all the more reason to beg LA to take Arenado’s contract.
Theres no reason to believe they won’t reduce payroll.
And every reason to believe they’ll raise concession prices. Another ploy could be to peddle a few more new editions of those silly looking city connect uniforms. And it wouldn’t surprise me too much if they had the audacity to hike up ticket prices.
“flat or less” — GS
I remember this phrase at the deadline, describing next winters budget. I thought it fit. A month later has “flat” disappeared?
I am convinced the Cardinals will reduce payroll going into next season. IMO, Ownership has been dropping hints all along. The TV contract is the cake and reduced attendance is the icing. There is a reason Bloom was brought in … look at him being more active in the decision making process moving forward.
Not exactly sure what to expect this offseason. However, I do not believe signing big dollar free agents is in their plans.
The name of this thread is “What’s it gonna take to fix the Cardinals”…..and its more than just money.
Cardinals…..12th highest in payroll, Arizona, San Diego, Minnesota, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Baltimore, and Cleveland, all spend less than STL and they are either division leaders, in the wild card, or closer to the wild card than STL. Take a step back for a moment and you’ll see there’s A LOT more wrong with this team than the players and the size of the payroll.
Remember way back in 2022….we had Waino, Yadi, the return of Albert, it was Marmol’s first year, made the post season, there were some magical moments. Arenado was hitting, Goldy won an MVP, which means he was hitting. Gorman wasn’t stinking up the joint…..so what’s different?
2023 comes around and what happens? The offense couldn’t hit water if it fell out of a boat, but why? The pitching was a freakishly awful, but why? Because Albert WAS the hitting coach, and Yadi WAS the pitching coach. The team lost its leaders, it lost its swagger, it lost its identity. Marmol is not a good Manager, you don’t call your players out in public, (i.e. O’neil and Contreras). You alienate those players, put doubt in the minds of the others and lose respect. More on him later.
Hitting…..have any of you ever looked at Turner Wards career stats? (12 seasons)
war AB H HR BA RBI OBP SLG OPS OPS+
4.5 1548 389 39 .251 219 .332 .388 .721 87
Why is this guy the hitting coach? Thats over 12 seasons!!! He can’t hit, so why do you think Goldy is struggling, why do you think Arenado is not hitting homers? Why are Gorman, Walker, and Victor Scott II
all hitting at AAA and can’t in STL? Why did Dylan Carlson have no homers in STL but has 3 or 4 since being traded? Coincidence? I think not. If you are getting bad instruction and being taught bad habits you are going to suck, its not rocket science. Turner Ward needs to go.
Pitching…while it definitely under performed last year, it sucked partially because Yadi was gone, he knows/knew those pitchers and their stuff better than the pitchers know their own stuff. Im not bagging on Contreras, he just didn’t know them as well as Yadi and its not something you learn in a handful of weeks in spring training.2024…PITCHING PITCHING PITCHING (remember that?)
STL got one pitcher (GRAY) and two innings eaters in Lynn, and Gibson that helped provide “Club House” leadership along with Carpenter. I dont care if you can eat innings, if youre pitching 6 innings and giving up 5 runs, thats not doing the club any good. Bump one to the pen or DFA them and bring up McGreevy, I think he has earned a longer look after his great one game performance.So Back to Marmol….He has turned this team into a dumpster fire. He is a garbage manager, He has completely mishandled Jordon Walker all season. The only reason Walker is getting his playing time now is because Mozeliak told Marmol to play him and not platoon him. He totally ran O’neil out of town because he didn’t like him. I know he was injured often, but he was a 2 time gold glover and he’d have the most HR’s of any outfielder if Turner Ward didn’t screw him up first…….(besides Burleson, who I consider more of a DH/1st). For some reason he wanted to get rid of Dylan Carlson, who I think we’ll see his potential in Tampa. He completely mismanages or over manages the team. The offense is struggling and you leave Pages up instead of Herrera, who’s a much better hitter. Mikolas has shown he can’t go thru the
order 3 times, but he leaves in. How many times have you watched a game this season and said “what are you doing” He carries no respect in that club house, and you can’t play for a person you don’t respect. Most of us have played baseball or some sport and know what a “cancer” can do to a club house or locker room……He needs to go, PERIOD!!!Mozeliak hired that clown so he has responsibility too. He listens to Marmol and believes what he says, which is another reason he is responsible. My advice for MO is sometimes you screw up, sometimes you make mistakes, admit it, save face and can that guy. I know no one wants to hear it, but MO isn’t getting fired. He is like a son to BDW. He will finish his contract through 2025, whether he steps down waits to be seen. If he stays as POBO, Marmol will probably stay too. If he steps down and hands the reins to Chaim Bloom I think Marmol gets his walking paper.
So I agree with many of you that raising payroll wouldn’t hurt, adding a couple free agents wouldn’t hurt either, especially a #2 pitcher. But you have to fire Marmol, you have to fire Ward and bring in some guys that command respect and can do their job. Schumaker will be available, Yadi wants to manage, and im sure those two guys could get Albert to be a hitting coach for at least a year if he doesnt have prior contractual commitments with the Angels, but geez, hire a hitting coach that can hit….Larry Walker, Todd Helton, Carlos Beltran, Jimmy Edmonds, Scott Rolan…..
Sorry for the rant, anyone wanna borrow my soap box, lol
Cardinals are actually pretty well set for 2025.
C- Contreras
1B – Burleson/Baker
2B – Donovan
SS – Winn
3B – Arenado
LF – Nootbaar
CF – Siani
RF – Walker
DH – Herrera/GormanSP – Gray
SP – Fedde
SP – Gibson (re-signed)
SP – Mikolas (contract plays)
SP – Matz
SP – PallanteBP –
Helsley
Kittredge (re-signed)
Romero
Liberatore
Pallante or Matz
O’Brien
King
FernandezBench –
Herrera/Gorman
Saggese
Scott
PagesWhat’s that payroll look like?
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