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Continuing from the above, there was a good backup to most everything else on the team. We had a plethora of solid relievers. Goldschmidt had Baker or Burleson. Arenado had Gorman or Donovan. Gorman had Donovan or potentially Edman if needed. Winn just had Edman (and later Crawford). The corner outfield had Carlson and then Burleson and then Siani as a competent defensive replacement. The biggest drop-offs in production were always going to be if Edman got hurt, or if Contreras got hurt, or if more than one starter got hurt. Those were the team’s major weaknesses. Those and the clogging up the bench that led to a lack of versatility with Carpenter. That last one is 100% self inflicted.
I’m not sure what you expect production wise out of a backup catcher if Herrera isn’t it. I very much don’t like his glove, but he is a good hitting catcher and is viable as a fill in. The reason losing Contreras hurts so much is Contreras was so good. It doesn’t matter who you put back there, unless they are one of the top 5 catchers in MLB, you will notice a large dropoff in production at the position. The Phillies are about to go through this with Realmuto as well.
Albert, I agree. I’m just saying there was bound to be a huge drop-off if Contreras got hurt. I’m not blaming the organization at all in this instance. Herrera is an excellent back-up catcher (although arm strength obviously needs some improvement and maybe could have been addressed better in the past offseason).
They had 4 things that could tank their season the most if they happened. 3 of them have occurred. Some are more a fault in planning than others. The Contreras situation though just is what it is.
#1. I wish you had gone into a little more into the lack of a reliable #5 starter. Pallante has two good starts and one mess. Still questionable.
#2 Herrera has been okay. You can’t expect any more from him.
#3 You said it all
#4 Carpenter and Crawford= two mistakes. We have better players at AAA that are being held up. I can see the signing of Crawford as a backup at SS that hasn’t panned out because of his lack of offensive production., but Carpenter has been a zero so far. Nothing personal.Whether he is the backup catcher or not Herrera’s defense is a problem. Usually the backup catcher is a defense first guy but Herrera is the opposite. I agree that his bat has been more than adequate but his arm is killing us. It can’t be a coincidence that Pages is starting to get more playing time even though he is hitting .080.
FWIW (SSS disclaimer), in only 362 innings, Herrera is at -6 DRS and -2 FRV, almost all of it from poor marks on his throwing. Over a full season, that kind of performance would be really bad. For context, the worst rated defensive catcher in all of baseball last year was Elias Diaz with a -16 DRS in just over 1,000 innings. Herrera is on that sort of pace.
Granted Herrera is a defensive liability. But, if Arenado was playing up to his past standards, offensively, and even defensively, this team would be several games over .500, IMO. Add the games lost because the Victor Scott II experiment was carried out for too long by Oli, and we might be close to leading the Division.
The Cardinals mishandled the Herrera development, no question. If you have a catching prospect with a bad arm, then he can only be a backup. It doesn’t really matter if he has a good bat because he is only going to play once a week.
If they liked his bat, the thing to do would be find him a position where he can play every day so the bat will do you some good. If he can’t play anywhere, then move on.
I don’t buy the fix his arm narrative. I think they probably tried already, before spending $85 Million on a catcher. They probably tried like hell. Why wouldn’t they.
Yeah, a catching prospect with a bad arm is in complete opposition to any sort of logical approach unless he swings the bat like the Bambino.
Albert, I agree. I’m just saying there was bound to be a huge drop-off if Contreras got hurt. I’m not blaming the organization at all in this instance. Herrera is an excellent back-up catcher (although arm strength obviously needs some improvement and maybe could have been addressed better in the past offseason).
Ah sorry I misunderstood. I thought you expected the Cards to go out and sign or acquire a Catcher to ride the pine behind Contreras. Starting caliber catchers aren’t going to sign up for that.
We have a lot of catching depth in the org, but we will see if any develop the right combo of hitting and defense to grow into a starter to replace Contreras in a few years. At least the org depth means we should be able to keep cost controlled backups for a while. Once backups get to arb years, you should trade them off unless you have no cheaper alternatives. With Herrera and Pages now, and then Crooks, Bernal, and maybe Sammy Hernandez afterwards, we should be able to keep a decent home grown back up.
It’s interesting to note how much Contreras has been missed this season after being publicly named as the primary reason for the team’s failures last season. They even benched him for a week or so and he was required to stand on the top step of the Cardinal dugout during games so that the Redbird manager could explain the finer points of being a Big League catcher…Remember that?
Yeah and it was a load of, well you know what. Marmol’s game plans isnt the worst part of his game managing, it is his player management) relationship. It seems like Marmol and the FO wanted an easy scapegoat for the pitching problems and landed on Contreras. He isn’t a great game caller, but the pitchers said it wasn’t him that was the issue.
Oli really mismanaged O’Neill publically calling him out. Sure yell at him or whatever else in private, but it doesn’t help the org in any way to publicly call out a player. You just reduce your negotiating power when you inevitably trade them later.
Yeah, the O’Neill post game presser was the first indication of his character. I attributed it to a momentary lack of good judgement. Everyone’s allowed one of those from time to time. Then, not too much later on, the finger was pointed directly at Contreras. And it wasn’t just the Redbird manager. It was the entire Cardinal brass and they utilized him as a sacrificial scapegoat in order to direct the focus away from their own numerous failures. That sealed it for me. I thought it was a shameful disgrace. And Contreras behaved like the consummate professional during the entire fiasco.
Today is game 70, I believe, so we are closing in on the half way mark. It’s not early any more, so we have enough sample size to see what we’ve got.
Burleson and Winn are two of the top three in SLG. They are the top two in OPS. Good for them certainly, but it means the lineup needs to be bulldozed into the river.
If Arenado and Goldschmidt were producing this is a really good team – not a great team – but a good team.
If Walker hadn’t regressed, if Contreras hadn’t gotten injured, if Edman had been able to recover, if Gorman’s BA & OBP was .265 & .350 then this might have been a really, really good team.
However, none of the above is true and as the old saying goes, ‘If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.’
ZTR The pitching has been better than expected. Winn and Burleson are better than expected. That’s it. 500ish team. Not good. Good teams overcome I juries. Our roster is baseball malpractice.
I am tired of seeing every blogger and “analyst” say the Cards need pitching and musing about potential trades for pitchers when this team needs bats. It is disgusting laziness in my opinion. We don’t need starters and we don’t need relievers.
this team needs bats.
I am not sure that would help. Having two guys with OPS+ under 100 as fixtures in the heart of the order limits what the lineup can do day in, day out, no matter what the other guys do.
Today is game 70, I believe, so we are closing in on the half way mark. It’s not early any more, so we have enough sample size to see what we’ve got.
Burleson and Winn are two of the top three in SLG. They are the top two in OPS. Good for them certainly, but it means the lineup needs to be bulldozed into the river.
Sad, but true. It’s pretty clear that Goldy and Arenado are not star bats anymore. They aren’t necessarily terrible, but they are more accessory pieces with other good bats around them, than lineup carriers. The team needed Gorman, Walker and/or Nootbaar to be those guys, but they haven’t been able to pick up the torch yet. Throw in the one guy who was carrying the lineup getting hurt, and you’re in trouble.
If Contreras and Noooooooot come back and hit, Goldy and Arenado have to be moved down. Too bad if they get their feelings hurt.
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