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The Cards will outbid the rest and get Snell. Oh wait I just woke up….. must have been dreaming. But it will happen.
ps… this is the 1,001 comment on this topic. Someday I’m going to read through them to see who was correct.I certainly understand why some of you guys believe the Cardinals will make one more middling acquisition and call it a day. History suggests that is exactly what they will do. But there is one other thing the Cardinals really like to do and that is sell tickets. Much of their budget relies on it.
For the last couple of decades they have been able to count on packed houses most every night despite whatever shenanigans the front office was up to. I get the sense things might be different this time. Last year was a disaster on the field and I think a huge majority of fans point the finger at the front office and ownership. I think they are going to need one big ticket acquisition this winter to prove to fans that they are serious about winning or season ticket sales will dry up.
I hope they are smart enough to avoid Snell but I expect them to go after Yamamoto, Gray, Cease, Bieber, Monty, or Glasnow.
You may be right gsc, but one gong-ringer, no matter how good, even if they could find one, will not fix this team.
Yeah, if they get one top-of-rotation piece and call it quits like they did last year after signing Contreras, they will have another disappointing season.
They have to improve the rotation, which is extremely hard to do now that they have signed Lynn & Gibson.
They have to improve the bullpen.
If they move O’Neill & Carlson, they need some outfield depth to backfill.
They need a backup SS.
They need to seriously review how they use their “analytics” that tell them to sit their left-handed batters against left-handed pitchers and to play Jordan Walker in right field instead of DH him.
Possibly the most exciting thing I learned in the 1,000+ posts on this thread is that there exists a “Noot News Podcast”, as revealed within the article linked by mud above. I feel better now.
LACardFan
If they move O’Neill & Carlson, they need some outfield depth to backfill.
They need a backup SS.
I would think that if they moved O’Neill, they wouldn’t trade Carlson and vice versa. Edman will be the backup SS as they would just shift Gorman to full-time 2B, Donovan to LF, and Nootbaar to CF, in the event Masyn Winn struggles. Plus they would still have either O’Neill or Carlson (plus Burleson should have a better year)
Burly was my pick to click the 2nd half last season, and it just didn’t happen.
As a 5th OF, I like Palacios better than Burly, today.
I don’t think there is any way you can go into 2024 with Masyn Winn as the starting SS. He put up -0.8 WAR in 137 PA’s. That would be a pace for -3.2 WAR over a full season. Versus starting Tommy Edman, who will put up positive 3-4 WAR. That is a huge difference. I don’t understand why people are willing to overlook Winn’s awful performance in 2023.
Do I think he is going to get better? Yes.
Would I start him at SS in 2024? Not a chance.
The only reason I believe they will move both O’Neill & Carlson is if they are seeking to get cost-controlled relievers in exchange. Our bullpen had 28 blown saves last year. You can either buy relievers on the open market (which the Cardinals are terrible at doing), or you can trade for them. I think the Cardinals will have better results by trading for them.
But I can definitely see them keeping Carlson as the 4th OF since he still makes the league minimum.
Winn at SS will always be a fluid situation until he’s given enough opportunities to establish himself.
If he stumbles early on, he likely gets demoted as Walker did. He should start somewhere, and if BillyMo want him as the starting SS opening day, give him a go. Plan B is in place (Edman), if they dont trade him.
LACardFan
I don’t think there is any way you can go into 2024 with Masyn Winn as the starting SS.
In that event, you wouldn’t need a backup SS as it would be Winn himself.
LACardFan
You can either buy relievers on the open market (which the Cardinals are terrible at doing), or you can trade for them
Good convo on this Monday morning LACF.
I disagree on this point in that the Cardinals have been good going after low-cost FA options such as:
21: Garcia, McFarland
18: Norris
16: Oh
15: Villanueva
14: Neshek
(VerHagen in 22 was the only miss in this department)Far better than the higher-priced guys:
19: Miller
18: Holland, Gregerson
17: Cecil
16: BroxtonTrading for them is also hit-or-miss:
22: Stratton – okay
18: Leone – miss
16: Duke – miss (did well in 16 though)
15: Cishek – hit
13: Axford – hit (but still let go)
12: Mujica – hitIn that event, you wouldn’t need a backup SS as it would be Winn himself.
Will Winn be better served as a backup on the MLB team, or in AAA playing everyday?
Far better than the higher-priced guys:
19: Miller
18: Holland, Gregerson
17: Cecil
16: BroxtonThis is the group we disagree on (I think they were a disaster), and the historical performance of these guys before they came to St. Louis is likely what you are shopping for if you are trying to improve a bullpen that had a 4.47 ERA and 28 blown saves.
I would play Edman at SS and trade Winn for pitching.
Winn is the best SS prospect they’ve had in awhile. I don’t think they’ll trade him. He just needs more time to develop.
The only way I trade him now is in a package for Bobby Witt, Jr.
I just saw where apparently Mo said we probably weren’t getting any more starting pitching but said never say never. This happened Monday. Well my thoughts on that are that it’s a shame, cause we need at least a number 2 type pitcher if we aren’t going to swing for a 1. I think gray slots in as a 2 but on this team as is he’s a 1. I could live with that if we had a solid 2. I don’t consider mikolas that at this point in time. He’s a 3 at best. So let’s say this is it outside of maybe a solid relief pitcher. Could we compete in the central, maybe if we stay healthy and our main guys on offense do better. But even then,best we can do is compete I feel. I think any shot at a world series is out the door with the roster mainly as it is. If we have our usual setbacks with injuries, we will be right down there where we finished this past season. If I had to make a prediction right now, I don’t think this season will go better but I’ll let it play out.
I think any shot at a world series is out the door with the roster mainly as it is.
The last time we got to the deadline with a chance, Mo acquired Montgomery. I don’t understand why people think Mo has to assemble a fully complete WS ready rotation right now or all is lost.
Well blingboy, I concur. However last season there was someone on here who thought our rotation was good enough and if it did need some help, Mo could do something at the trade deadline. Well we did something, we got rid of Montgomery because we were in last place. So two things. First yes if we are in contention he might be able to make a move. Secondly but maybe more importantly, if he doesn’t make another move, that may partly be the reason if we aren’t in contention by that time. To me this division is up for who wants to take it. We can either be a team that wants to take it or we can just hope we are in contention for it. The second one is what we usually are.
It will be interesting to see which one of the arms in our top 10 gets a chance to pitch in the majors first. Graceffo has significant AAA experience although he’s only thrown 62 innings at Memphis so far. Robberse also has a chance to get the first callup, and McGreevey is also in the running. Any one of Hence, Roby, and Hjerpe could get the call late in the season if the need arises.
LACardFan
Will Winn be better served as a backup on the MLB team, or in AAA playing everyday?
I would have Winn in AAA to open the year. Edman at SS and Donovan as the emergency SS. Call Winn up if Edman is 10-day DL injured.
Let’s say you are John Mozeliak:
– You have a job you love
– You make millions of dollars per year
– You are not yet ready to retire
– Your contract is up after the 2025 season
– You know that sports GM’s almost never ride out their lame duck year
– You are coming off a season you finished 20 games under .500
– Your boss expects you to be competing for the playoffs every yearWould you go into the 2024 season without a viable backup at SS?
If your opening day SS gets injured, would you rely on a player whose run-rate is 6 WAR less than that injured starter?
This is where you buy the $5 million insurance policy.
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