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That is true, CIF. But when was the last time an entire organization scapegoated one player for their failures?
Maybe DeWitt will learn a lesson from the Mets owner.
Maybe DeWitt will learn a lesson from the Mets owner.
Some NYC radio sports talk guys spoke about this Thursday. They gave a lot of credit to the Met’s owner for owning up to FO mistakes and moves on. That conversation was so refreshing to hear while the Card’s FO does exactly the opposite….. squeezing the living blood out of contracted players. Even if they are hurting the team. Contreras is and will be Fowler II. It has already started.
Another Mozeliak superblunder.
If they add 3 starters this off season. I would be ready for them being 3 # 4-5 types on short term deals. So I’d say the chances are slim and none they add a #1 starter unless they significantly add payroll and get back into the top 10.
Oh and believe me there’s plenty of sludge out there on the FA market of the 4-5 type starters. They also need to add a couple arms for the pen. Which makes even more unrealistic they add 2 top flight starters and a 4-5 type next season. I would be ready to see Dakota Hudson or Woodford in the rotation next year or even both.
If they add 3 starters this off season. I would be ready for them being 3 # 4-5 types on short term deals.
I am hoping they will be smart enough to sign three #2 starters early in the offseason while everyone else is pursuing Ohtani.
The last time we signed a FA starter it was Matz. Will BillyMo repeat that epic blunder?
When you buy low hanging fruit, often times it’s exactly what you get.
I was the biggest fool for championing that Matz deal. I even said we would be grateful we added the extra year. It has not been ideal so far but he has pretty good results since shifting back to the rotation….
WTH….. Matz has been great in July and August. What more does he need to do to change his rep in St.Louis? Is anyone still watching the Cards play?
Steven Matz in six years with the Mets: 4.35 ERA, .431 win %, 8.6 K/9, 2.8 BB/9
Steven Matz in <2 years with the #STLCards: 4.35 ERA, .444 win %, 9.0 K/9, 2.6 BB/9.
Conclusion: The Cards' Matz is an ever-so slightly better version of what he has always been. pic.twitter.com/ko45cyZQm6
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) August 6, 2023
Matz spent all last season either stinking or hurt. There should be no dispute about that. This year he spent the first third of the season stinking and then he spent about 6 weeks throwing a total of about 16 innings out of the pen. Returning to the rotation he had a good July. So if that warrants getting excited, OK, have at it. If he can get anyone out next April when it matters, I will jump on the bandwagon.
Part of the issue is that Matz was a major FA signing for the Cardinals, so expectations were exagerated. Nobody said, OK we signed a losing pitcher to eat innings in the lower half of our rotation, which was probably the reasonable expectation. But, obviously, he has even failed to do that other than the last month or so.
I can already envision Mo going into next season counting on guys like Matz, Liberatore and Hudson, who have substantial history of failure to be reliable due to either health or effectiveness or both. It will cave in again then like it did this year. But we will again drink the kool-aide like its our job.
bb, looking back at Matz’ entire career, which period was the outlier? The numbers I showed suggest that labeling him a “failure” over his career is inaccurate. (Using W-L record as a measure of value is downright silly, especially from a WAR-quoter like yourself.)
If he finishes 2023 over the final two months anything like he has pitched recently, then by all means he deserves a shot at the 2024 rotation as a back end guy.
BW, when you get demoted to the pen from one of the worst rotations in baseball, it doesn’t leave much room for optimism.
Yes Matz has pitched well since re-joining the rotation, extremely well, but I find myself waiting for the other shoe to drop. He did make 10 GS to begin 2023 and it was ugly. Hard to forget.
I’m not placing any hopes on Matz being an effective member of the 5 man in ’24. Like you mentioned, I’ve seen plenty of him and I wish I could forget what I’ve seen.
In the best and most fanciful world Mo obtains three rotation worthy pitchers this winter. Plus Mikolos, leaves one open slot for a laundry list guy, and Matz is the guy with a contract. So we know how it will go.
Well yeah, unless his left arm scatters, he’ll be in there until he takes about 8 consecutive turns that could be termed horrendous and his ERA balloons to north of 7 ER’s per 9.
Yes matz is a serviceable pitcher. Would be very good for teams that never make the playoffs. He’s at best a 5 for a playoff team that occasionly pitches like a 4. Yes he’s dealt with injuries but those count against a pitcher not for him. I expect the Cardinals to keep him around but if he’s one of those pitchers being expected to carry our team not supplement it, then next year will be the same as this
Just want to mention that in a pregame interview yesterday,
Michael Girsch, when asked about the coming offseason, stated that the Cardinals do have ‘dry powder’. We’ll just have to wait and see what develops from that.I’m thinking that 2023 has turned out to be what could be called a ‘transition year’. Almost everyone underestimated the impact of no more Yadier Molina behind the plate, and the impact of no more battery of Waino and Yadi every fifth day. Few thought that Wainwright couldn’t bring it for one last year. And few really contemplated that Oli Marmol might need more time to develop himself as a manager.
I’m with you Willie, in regards to if Matz can give the team a sliver of a chance to win at the very back of the rotation it has to be considered a sigh of relief, and if he works more than about 140 innings in ’24, he’d be what I’d call LH’ed version of Jake Westbrook in the present day’s sort of SP’er pecking order.
mud, you mentioned Molina and much has been written about his absence. Its fairly easy to to see that Contreras is a big drop off and that it would be worth paying his contract off in trade value and find someone to help out the pitching staff. Its a no-brainer.
The Mets owner paid Scherzer and Verlander a combined estimate of $60M to leave and play elsewhere. That would be tough for DeWitt to do.
Haha!…If Billy Jr. had to do that, he’d simultaneously grow a head full of hair while he was stomping on an Arby’s roast beef sandwich…
Back end starters from free agency is admitting the pipeline is dry. Good clubs use the SP5 role for their best prospect starters, instead of paying an 11mil AAV.
So do we consider Matz a SP4? A guy who has been demoted to the pen both years he has been here, is a SP4?
If that’s the case, then Mikolas fills the SP3, and BillyMo need to acquire two starters, both better than Mikolas.
SHO-ME!
The Cardinals who could hardly be termed a good team have been using what I assume they consider their best prospect in the form of Liberatore for the back end of the rotation both this season and early in ’22. I don’t at all blame teams for trying to fill that 4th and 5th turn with affordable arms simply because the price of SP’ing dictates that it takes a small nation’s GDP to pay the salary of 5 established SP’ers. In my view Matz is clearly a back end sort of SP’er and to be paying him well upwards of $40M over 4 seasons tells me that the Cardinals don’t have a very good idea where to go when they shop for FA arms, and if they go back to the aisle where they found Matz it could get really stupid if they go shopping this winter.
If that’s the case, then Mikolas fills the SP3, and BillyMo need to acquire two starters, both better than Mikolas.
SHO-ME!
You know they won’t do that and does the pitching coach we have deserve it even if they did go for it.
If you’re lucky they’ll spend on a SP4 and SP5 on a short term deal and role with Hudson or Woodford and get some pen help.
Ideally, I would love to see them get Yamamoto.
I bet they go after Giolito. He’s a good fit and young. He should be the #1 target now. I’d prefer him to Nola, Snell, or Urias. Likely a 5yr-$110M deal.
I can also see them going after Sonny Gray as well, but he’d cost us a 2nd round pick. With his age (34), he’ll be a short term deal, likely a 3yr-$60M deal.
I’d love to see Montgomery return as well. He will probably cost a lot – 5yr-$80M deal? I’m not sure on his contract.
I’d also like to see them go after a currently injured starter like Mahle.
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