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We trade outfielders for relievers, not the other way around…
That seems to be the case for sure.
Helsley has been very good but is replaceable. Relievers are volatile and last place teams don’t need a lockdown closer. A productive bat would be of greater value for us.
Now that we are in the wild card race, we should be taking applications for upgrading CF.
Edman? 2025 is his FA-to-be platform season. Pffft, who knows.
Carlson needs a change of scenery. Maybe we can find a PDJ injury backfill trade where Dylan becomes someone else’s plug and play out of necessity.
Scott? Not yet, so a starting CF’r, even a rental, plugs the black hole batting 9th has been all season.
The Cardinals history suggests that if they are buyers at the deadline, they will acquire a reliever or two.
But if the Cardinal performance of the last 10 days or so is indicative of them becoming a legitimate playoff contender, what they would really need is a front-of-rotation starter to replace Matz in the rotation.
Amen brother. Priority one is SP2 & SP3 going forward. No team “fixes” it’s pitching staff, without filling those roles as best as possible.
At least we know that Mo can acquire a Monty type SP’r with an added season of control, or a Quintana type rental when contending.
Maybe this is Mo’s last deadline. Maybe he gets bold.
If we are buying we need a starter, a reliever, and and OF. I don’t know what the reliever market looks like but I have two names to throw out for starter and OF.
I am assuming the Cards willl want to go cheap so I would go after Jose Quintana of the Mets and Tommy Pham of the White Sox. Both are rentals and know STL well. Q would be an upgrade over Matz and Pham would be an offensive upgrade over anyone we currently have in the OF.
If we want to target a starter with another year of control I would look at Erick Fedde of the White Sox.
There are bolder moves we could make but the words bold and Cardinals don’t really go together so I am trying to stay realistic.
No way they’re taking Siani off the active roster, not with the highlight reel plays he’s been turning in from CF lately. Without his defense last night, we would likely have lost that game.
I agree that this team’s greatest need is for a number 2 or 3 starting pitcher, but I don’t see where we can put together an offer good enough to get one. As of now it seems that our best hope is for Thompson to find his groove. FWIW, I think it was the right move to bring Pallante up instead of Thompson. Let Thompson work at Memphis as a starter until he’s fully ready for the big league rotation, and let Liberatore work out of the bullpen where he’s had the most success. IMO, Marmol screwed them both up by jacking them around instead of defining their roles and then letting them be in those roles.
Gallegos should be available fairly soon. I don’t know what’s happening with O’Brien, but there was some optimistic talk about him before he went down with whatever injury he has. I hope Loutos gets a chance to pitch today. He was posting some impressive stats at Memphis.
Contreras being out clarifies some nuance about the backup catcher role. Firstly, if a catcher has both bat and arm he can be an everyday catcher. One or the other he’s a backup. But I think of the two, the arm is more important. A guy just about couldn’t hit enough to compensate for an out of control running game. Having the backup catcher as a DH regularly is not advisable because of the chance of losing the DH and your pitcher having to bat and potentially run the bases and potentially get hurt.
So the gist is Herrera can’t be a starring catcher and is not well suited to be a backup catcher. So it is an area where an upgrade would help. Some say Pages could be a backup, but they were saying the same about Herrera not long ago, so I don’t know. The Cardinals org rode with Herrera a long time to end up with a bad fit. Unfortunately, the rest of baseball now knows he’s a bad fit too. It would have been better to move him before everyone found out.
Having the backup catcher as a DH regularly is not advisable because of the chance of losing the DH and your pitcher having to bat and potentially run the bases and potentially get hurt.
You simply PH for the pitcher like we used to do when pitchers actually hit.
So your catcher goes down in the first inning and your backup shifts from DH to catcher, so your pitcher now bats in the DH slot and likely comes up in the next couple innings. So then you PH? That sounds great.
Bling, the point you bring up is valid. I mentioned in a different thread that the “Herrera is the catcher of the future” mantra is starting to take on water. His bat certainly plays but not being able to throw out any runners is a huge liability. I think they should trade him and either go with Pages as the backup or find someone a little better. Crooks and Bernal are still a year or two away.
And I agree they should stop using Contreras as a DH because of the very scenario you mentioned. Having three catchers on the roster is ridiculous also.
So your catcher goes down in the first inning and your backup shifts from DH to catcher, so your pitcher now bats in the DH slot and likely comes up in the next couple innings. So then you PH? That sounds great.
The issue is not pinch hitting. It is both catchers getting injured in the same game and having to use an emergency catcher.
Let’s say the catcher gets injured in the first inning, and you have to PH for him the rest of the game. That is what, 4 AB’s? You have how many bench players on your roster?
Well it is concerning that the same people who were right there and did not identify Herrera’s issue are also standing right there looking at Bernal and Crooks.
They also thought last year that Contreras was a terrible catcher right after giving him $87.5M then changed their mind. I guess there is a difference between framing and throwing runners out though.
Yes their track record with the catcher position has been shaky the last couple of years. Apparently they were spoiled by the 19 years of Yadi.
A small piece of this is the larger bases and oven mitts. Herrera used to throw out 20% in the minors. Now, it’s 5%. He may be slightly better than that over a larger sample size, but it’s still bad.
The good news is that it’s probably easier to remedy arm strength than pitch framing or learning to hit better. Mo talked about how Herrera would be put on a weight training program in the offseason. They should have been aware that this would be an issue already. It wasn’t like his 20% was going to be better given the oven mitts and larger bases. They probably were. But they chose not to worry given that Willson would be behind the plate for most games. And now that’s backfired.
Pages is probably better suited as the backup in a lot of ways except that with backup catchers, they often play 20% of the games. That means Pages bat is put into our lineup quite a bit. Right now that’s a terrible thing given the state of our offense.
Well it is concerning that the same people who were right there and did not identify Herrera’s issue are also standing right there looking at Bernal and Crooks.
For context, here are Longenhagen’s defense most scouting grades in each of our catching prospects. Longenhagen is much more conservative on handing out tool grades especially on the defense side which is why I like his ratings. They tend to be the more realistic output.
Herrera (2023 report) – Fielding=35/40, Throwing=40
Pages – Fielding=50/50, Throwing=60
Crooks – Fielding=45/55, Throwing=60
Bernal- Fielding=40/55, Throwing=55Much better defense reports on the non-Herrera catchers in our org. No grade on Sammy Hernandez, but here is what Eric had to say on him.
Hernandez is a raw, athletic catcher who came back from Toronto in the Génesis Cabrera trade last year. He needs to develop as a defender (his crouch is still comically high) and improve his plate discipline, but he has rare bat speed for a catcher.
Don’t forget about Rainiel Rodriguez in the DSL. Solid signing bonus and good numbers so far, but can’t find a single thing about his catching skills.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=rodrig004rai
It would be nice if Edman could return and re-establish himself before the trade deadline. It would give Mo another trade chip option for a needed starting pitcher.
Unfortunately Edman suffered a sprained ankle recently and his rehab has been halted. It doesn’t appear his return is imminent at all.
Edman, with an arb3 season of club control remaining, would have fallen in the Bader class, of available trade chips by salaries and club control remaining.
Edmans lost availability to us now also effects who we would make available this deadline. Or who we would need to target in a trade return, for moving an outfielder. Not helping.
If I was an opposing team I would want to know that Edman was healthy before I traded for him and time is running out quickly to determine that. Carlson is more likely to be traded than Edman although he wouldn’t bring much back. A more likely scenario is that Mo has to trade from his prospect list.
I think Carlson is gone before the month is out. He has used up his grace period as a Cardinal and there are teams that will risk a deal for him based on his possibility of tapping into that former-top-prospect-potential blossoming in a change of scenery. And his defense still plays.
I agree about Carlson probably being gone.
I’ve been reading that Seattle is looking for 2B with good on base skills. Seattle has a uniquely deep rotation and could trade from it for a good majors bat with control. I love Donovan and don’t know if I would do this, but I have to imagine Mo and Dipoto have discussed Donovan + maybe Carlson or something along those lines for Bryan Woo or Bryce Miller. Stl gets a cost controlled mid rotation SP and Seattle gets the offensive help they want with an emphasis on OBP at 2B.
Seattle also wants OF help and in general wants players who don’t strike out as much. If they wanted Burly for Woo or Miller, I would happily accept. It isn’t I don’t like Burly, but I he is a bad corner OF and has reduced value as a 1B/DH. I’m also biased since Donovan is one of my favorite Cards players.
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