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25, Hudson would be on the table for Kiriloff, IMO.
Mud, I don’t see the need for O’Neill if you acquire Kiriloff. We would have too many OFs and no place to play them.
Say, Hudson and O’Neill for Kiriloff and a prospect. Trade Carlos for lower level prospects who can fill the system up. Sign Pederson 1 yr/$6M. Carlson and Kiriloff start in Memphis, called up when they’re ready or needed. Salary stays flattish. You prep to move on from Carp and Wong after 2021, with Edman shifting to 2nd and hopefully Gorman or Montero being ready for 3rd. If that’s absolutely not gonna happen then maybe you resign Wong or find a stopgap. Carlson-Kiriloff-Gorman-Montero could be an incredible 1-4 in a few years. All have good to great hitting upside.
2B Wong
3B Edman
1B Goldy
SS Dejong
DH Carp/OFer
LF Pederson/Thomas
C Yadi
RF Fowler/Kiriloff
CF Bader/CarlsonKnizner
Sosa
RaveloFlaherty
Waino
Mikolas
Kim
Gomber/Oviedo/Ponce/WoodfordMiller
Gallegos
Gant
Brebbia
Reyes
Cabrera
Helsley
Hicks
Whitley
Webb
FernandezThe rotation becomes a bit thin and prone to injury or regression. The bullpen might be dominant though. Maybe you give Reyes another look at starting. If he can throw strikes, he’s a top of the rotation type guy. Then you look for Liberatore, Thompson or Rondon to progress and be ready for late season call ups.
Just my opinion, but I think Hudson is being undervalued. He is our number two starter and he’s only going to get better. I like him better than our own Miles Mikolas. I don’t think a number two starter for an unproven outfield prospect is a fair trade. One other comment is that Julio Rodriguez with the Mariners could turn out to be as good as, or maybe even better than Kirilloff. I wouldn’t mind trading for Rodriguez. We definitely need to trade some pitching or we’re going to lose a good pitcher in the Rule 5 draft or end up giving away a good pitcher.
Mud, I like Hudson too…but to get elite talent, you have to give up a lot. Kiriloff happens to play a position that the Twins have lots of good players at currently and has produced great numbers but isn’t considered a precocious take like Wander Franco or Julio Rodriguez. Those types of talents basically never get traded for anything short of a megastar with multiple years of control. So…Jack Flaherty types. I wouldn’t see Rodriguez as a reasonable trade target, as he’s probably a couple years out to arrive at all, and we need a RF for 2022 at the minimum.
Some in the saber crowd were convinced that Hudson would regress in 2020. As I see it, a problem with any kind of backward looking analysis is that it incorrectly assumes players (especially younger, less experienced ones) won’t adjust and improve. Hudson already led the entire league in ground ball percentage last year and with this defense, he already had a good base. More consistent strike throwing seems to be the final step for so many, and Hudson is no exception.
Stlcard25, Hudson and O’Neill for Kiriloff and Gordon. Gordon could be the replacement for Wong and leaves Edman to fill 3B until someone is ready to take it over.
Good idea, Forsch. It seems that some Twins fans have soured a little on Gordon. Not sure why. He’d be worth a shot at least.
Anyone worried that Kiriloff only had a very average season at Double-A in 2019? He has fallen a bit on national prospect lists.
Jim Bowden had a piece in The Athletic today ranking the top 15 free agents this winter. He has Springer at number 3 and lists the Cardinals as the best fit.
I agree he would be a good fit on the field, however, I do not think he will be a good fit in the budget, therefore, I don’t see it happening.
3. George Springer, CF, Houston Astros
Age: 30
2020 stats:
Slash line: .241/.352/.474 HR: 8 RBI: 22 OPS+: 120 WAR: 0.9Springer has hit 20 or more home runs in five of his six major-league seasons coming into this year, including 39 home runs in 2019. His career slash line is .268/.360/.487 with a career OPS+ of 130. His postseason production has been off the charts, including a career .362 on-base percentage with 15 home runs and 28 runs batted in over 50 games and 232 plate appearances. Those big game success stories will increase his free-agent value. Although he’s played mostly center field for the Astros over the past few years, I’d expect he’ll be signed by someone to exclusively play right field.
Teams with a need: Astros, Rangers, Indians, Nationals, Brewers, Diamondbacks
Early best fit: Cardinals
Brian, considering he had wrist issues in 2019, I am not too concerned about the drop in production. He is still considered to be a good hitter. He hit .283 in AA last year. Dylan Carlson hit .281 in AA last year. I know Carlson showed more power but Kirilloff has shown a little better contact skills and his OPS has been higher every year except last year.
Anyone worried that Kiriloff only had a very average season at Double-A in 2019? He has fallen a bit on national prospect lists.
As mentioned above, he started season with a wrist injury that sort of harpooned his early season. He was hitting .240 at the end of May. He had a couple of good games in early June, then went back on the DL again. When he returned, he played better, hitting .289 with a 120 wRC+. Not bad for shaking off what is one of the harder injuries for a hitter to come back from (see Montero, Eleuris). His .333 and .362 averages in half a season each in the Midwest and Florida State League stand out to me.
I’ll also add that he seems to come from a good family, has a strong faith and is married with a child at 22. While that’s not a guarantee of anything, it speaks to me that he’s got his head on straight and is willing to work hard and take responsibility. Those seem to be traits that Cards fans admire, as do I.
Plus, suburban Pittsburgh has been good to Cards with regards to sweet lefty swinging outfield/potential 1B types in the past ..😁
Thanks to all for the Kiriloff background. The injury explains last season but that means so far that he has yet to post a true standout season above A-ball. I would be worried if the Twins made him available.
Never happen, but, let Yadi and Kolten walk, reclaiming ~30mil of the 2020 budget. Go after Realmuto HARD. Plug Edman in at 2B and when Carp buries himself at 3B again, use Schrock and Sosa off the bench at 2B. Or, just add around the edges and be the same club as 2020, just older.
Brian, I think the only way Kirilloff becomes available is that you pry him away from Minnesota. They might trade him because they still have OF prospects.
JJ, like you said your scenario won’t happen. Yadi will be here if he wants to be and I assume he does.
Unless the Cardinals are willing to eat a chunk of the contracts:
CMart is untradeable.
Mikolas is untradeable.
Fowler is untradeable.
Carp is untradeable.
A. Miller is untradeable.The only opportunity to save some salary would be not to bring Wong back. But then you have to factor in all of our arbitration raises.
jj, funny you mention Sosa. I was just thinking about him as the Justin Williams of the infield. Among the many to flow through the 40-man roster this year, only Sosa and Elehuris Montero did not play with St. Louis. Sosa will be out of minor league options next spring. Hard to see his future here.
With Yadi, it depends on STL’s offer. He may get all offended like Albert did if it’s not enough $ in his opinion, and he’s already stated he’s open to playing elsewhere.
With Sosa, he’s next seasons Ravelo. Out of options and rides the bench, but I’d also prefer an infield utility rather than Ravelo’s 1B/DH role. I can see Sosa on next seasons roster getting his shot like Ravelo has.
It doesn’t concern you that Sosa did not get a single call up this season? He never even made a taxi squad. Every time, it was Schrock instead. I remain a firm believer that the organization’s actions (or non-actions) are more important than their words. For me, unless Sosa has an unknown injury, his stock appears to be way down.
Edman now has shown he can be an adequate reserve SS, reducing Sosa’s major benefit.
P.S. Remember that active rosters are likely to go back to 26 next year. And if Miller returns, one IF spot is used. While trading Wong is certainly an option, I will believe it when I see it.
In other words, I don’t see room for them to carry Sosa.
I’m mentioning Sosa in a scenario where Wong is gone and Edman has moved to 3B, Carp as a on paper DH and Schrock / Sosa coming off the bench platooning at 2B.
His stock was last established w/a .801 ops at Memphis in a full season and a good ST if memory serves, if it fell from there (somehow) it’s news to me. Heck, maybe he gets DFA’d this winter, i’m just going off his games.
With Yadi, it depends on STL’s offer. He may get all offended like Albert did if it’s not enough $ in his opinion, and he’s already stated he’s open to playing elsewhere.
I could see him getting offended but his statement about playing elsewhere is probably a bluff. If he did go elsewhere I would consider it a lucky break for the Cardinals payroll wise. I think Yadi is still a valuable member of the team but only at a certain price point. If he decides to bolt we can plug Knizer into the position then have money left over to get a big OF bat.
all,
Many have trouble seeing Yadi not returning. Many have trouble seeing Wong not returning. A. Miller had his option vest. Martinez has become another we will have to play off the roster, along with Carpenter and Fowler. Most believe Wainwright will return. Arb raises will continue to happen.
The budget for next season is tight, yet we all conjure up scenarios where stl adds an impact bat this winter. We just can’t keep everyone and still add an impact bat on the current player budget. To add that bat, we evidently must subtract first, even if it’s legacy players or fan favorites the FO seems attached to.
At least it’s fun to talk baseball, even if we’re kidding ourselves about an impact addition to the lineup.
The budget for next season is tight, yet we all conjure up scenarios where stl adds an impact bat this winter. We just can’t keep everyone and still add an impact bat on the current player budget. To add that bat, we evidently must subtract first, even if it’s legacy players or fan favorites the FO seems attached to.
I don’t see us adding an impact bat at any rate, even if I also think the “tight” budget is a fallacy. That said, realistically there’s going to be a pay limit and I agree that to add a bigger salary bat will require some tough cuts in other places.
I’ll also add that I think the offense is better than it’s shown this year. The unique circumstances of 2020 make calling anything other than continued declines from older players like Carp as just the way things are spurious (at least potentially) propositions.
I’ll also add that moving on from Wong and Yadi, if not for the addition of an impact bat but to save money, will be understandable but disappointing decisions. If that’s the case, I hope the front office is also removed as the bad payroll position is their responsibility, ultimately.
At this point I would inquire with the Angels about Pujols (if the DH stays) for 2021.
Offer them Carp (who at least has some position flex) and take on the extra 10mil. Angels save 10mil or whatever get a decent player who could still help and wouldnt clog up DH duties with Ohtani. This same scenario could be had with Fowler if that is more intriguing.
Pujols’ as pure DH has value just not when he is having to split that time with Ohtani. the money on tickets for Pujols last season (even if the team falters) will help reignite getting people back into the stadium (if it is safe) as well as he could still hit a few milestones and i think would all but ensure him going into the hall with Cardinals hat on. That stuff has meaning and value and as i said even if the team falters, people would still want to get their last look at one of the best Cardinals of all time, not to mention the press coverage.
Add in a Waino and Yadi signing, and the idea of all 3 of them retiring the same year would be pretty epic to watch them all play together and sign off (potentially) together.
As a side note I think the last year of Pujols would do wonders for the young hitters.
Pujols doesnt fix the offense, nor should he hit 3 or 4, but as a full time DH and the energy created form being back in StL might give us a special season, even if not vintage Pujols.
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