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Miguel Andujar is someone I hope Mo is talking to Cashman about a lot. He had an injury plagued year, and the Cards would want to see his medical records as well as inspect him themselves, on the flip side that should keep the asking price down a little bit. With them having Urshela and way to many DH options, they will at least be listening on him.
In his healthy rookie season, he hit .287, 47 2B’s, 27 HR’s with an .855 OPS. I bring up the doubles because he was 23 then and will likely turn some of those into HR’s. His D isn’t gold glove level, but I could about guarantee it would be better than Carp.
If (big if at that) Fowler would be willing to waive his no trade protection, could they swap Ellsbury to the Cards which would reduce their cap hit over 5M in 2020. They would also have to cover the 5M buyout in 2021. The Cards payroll for 2020 would go up 5M in 2020, but go down in 2021 by 16.5.
I know they are trying to get below, and stay below, the luxury tax and something like that could help sweeten the pot for them.
The question is, what else would the Cards have to give up to get him? They are desperate for pitching, would Dakota Hudson (who I think is due for major regression) and Fowler for Andujar and Ellsbury get it done?
This would include trading an OF (O’neill or Randy) and a smaller piece for Matt Boyd, but over the next 3 years I think Boyd >> Hudson.
They would still have a hole in the staff, but could potentially partially backload a deal for Kuechel, projected at 3/39, broken out to 9 in 2020 and then 15 in 21-22 (wanting 2 lefties obviously) to offset taking on more for Ellsbury in 2020.
Rotation: JF(R), Keuchel(L), Mikolas(R), Boyd(L), Waino/Ponce/Reyes/Gomber/Woodford/Cabrera
Infield: Yadi, Goldy, Wong, DeJong, Andujar
Outfield: Lane Thomas can just play all 3 spotsHis D isn’t gold glove level, but I could about guarantee it would be better than Carp.
-25 by DRS and -24.5 by UZR…so no, not even close to Carp. He’s a DH.
just because the Royals were not good does not mean Merrifield wasnt very good last year.
I dont like AS appearances as meaning much in general, but trying to say Whit didnt deserve to be an AS is really pretty crappy…
You dont like Whit…fine… but going out of your way to create a ridiculous commentary that supports your assertion is really pretty low and extremely bias
DeJong may not have deserved his spot but whit absolutely did
As for Andujar
I say no….i was in for him last offseason because of his ability to play 3b and i thought we could move him to 1b, but now with Goldy at 1b…i dont see us downgrading our defense at 3b, especially without the handcuff of moving him to 1b if he did not improve at 3b
Unfortunately I think he is a DH and we already have one of those that we cant play
You dont like Whit…fine… but going out of your way to create a ridiculous commentary that supports your assertion is really pretty low and extremely bias
I wasn’t the exact person your response was for but for my part, I actually like Whit. I just don’t see him as much of an upgrade on this team due to his age and the cost it would take to trade for him. The only position he’s played that I think he’d be a sure upgrade is RF and we could probably get a bump from playing O’Neill or Arozarena there too for a ton less in 2020 and for sure Carlson after that (who we’d have to trade unless we included Gorman).
For me, I don’t even get to an analysis of his stats. I don’t see how he fits in the budget with an estimated contract of three years, $54 million for his age 33-34-35 seasons. How would they make room for another $18 MM annual commitment?
I can assure you that the FO does not agree with you that we need a LH starter. And, if we somehow have one next year he will come from Memphis.
Cleveland is shopping Lindor because they know they aren’t going to be able to sign him when he becomes a free agent in two years. Cleveland is looking for help at catcher, second base, and outfield, and they would like to reduce payroll. So, we offer Matt Carpenter plus $2M, plus Knizner, Edman, and O’Neill to the Indians for Lindor. Lindor is projected to get a raise to $16.7M in arbitration. Carpenter is contracted to play for $18.5M next year. The $2M we send to Cleveland as part of the deal offsets the raise over the cost of Lindor. So for 2020, there would be no additional cost to the Indians for having Carpenter instead of Lindor. Then, in 2021, since Lindor would most likely get bumped up to around $22M-$24M in arbitration, the Indians would save $4M-$6M because Carpenter would be costing them $18.5M. The other players in the deal would fill needs and could even possibly be starting for Cleveland as early as 2020.
We would have to extend Molina, and we would have to sign a catcher like Wieters for another two years to make this work.
There is downside. For one thing, if this trade were made, just as sure as the sun shines, Carpenter would catch fire in Cleveland and hit 40 HRs, and the other thing is that Lindor will surely be looking for Manny Machado money when he becomes a free agent, and there is zero chance that the Cardinals would be stupid enough to take on such a ridiculous contract. Lindor would definitely be a two year rental for the Cardinals.
So what happens if this trade isn’t made, which is highly probable? Carpenter will start at third base and play there if he produces. If not, Edman will start taking over at third base like he did last year. And Montero could be brought up to play third some time during 2020, with Edman returning to super-sub.
Acquiring Lindor would create a lot of buzz, a lot of excitement. But would we win more games with Lindor at short and Dejong at 3B, than we wold with Carpenter-Edman-Montero at 3B and Dejong at short?
Hot stove talk ……..
If the Cardinals tried to trade Carpenter they would have to kick in around $10M per year unless we were also throwing in Carlson or Gorman, which I wouldn’t do.
Well, they should…it is an obvious hole.
Yes it would be nice to have a LH starter but it isn’t happening because of the budget. I have been saying this for months and it is now coming to past. All of these ill-conceived extensions and contracts to older and unproductive players have boxed us into a corner. There are no moves to be made other than a cheap stop gap LH hitter for the OF.
We are in payroll purgatory for the next year or two.
Thank you gscottar. You have said everything that needs to be said to render this thread superfluous.
A trade thread has no validity until 2022.
nate, I suggest you avoid this thread, as everyone here has the right to discuss their ideas. And there will be a new thread for this subject soon.
How about this concept? In order to get rid of one of the bad contracts, would you give up a top prospect not named Carlson?
Fowler at 1.9 war almost breaks even at his salary. Add Munoz or Sosa to a deal for an A-ball pitcher might not require much money on our part.
That would impact our system positively and allow us to make a considerable move. It would clear 40-man space, too.
The trade ends up Fowler and Munoz to the Angels for young arm, the guy we didn’t have to release (Leone), and the new signing.I don’t like four for one scenarios because the four can’t all be upper level players since other teams have limited 40-man space. With that in mind, I would still love Fowler, Sosa, Elledge, and Woodford to Cleveland for Kluber.
The Indians get a veteran outfielder, Lindor insurance, a bullpen piece and a young starter. We get a lottery ticket and out of Fowler’s deal a year early, plus the chance for a comp pick if Kluber pans out.Nigel T, I am confused. You said:
“I don’t like four for one scenarios because the four can’t all be upper level players since other teams have limited 40-man space. With that in mind, I would still love Fowler, Sosa, Elledge, and Woodford to Cleveland for Kluber.”
But your trade includes three 40-man players. Granted, it is not four, but close. FWIW, I would love this trade, too, but I bet Cleveland would not even come anywhere near biting.
I feel like we make a lot of these scenarios that are not plausible for 40-man reasons, so I prefaced my suggestion.
You seem to assume Kluber is healthy, but I do not. Everyone (including our front office) undervalues Sosa. What is wrong with Elvis Andrus at the league minimum?OK, so you are assuming both that Kluber is damaged goods and that Cleveland would trade him at a discount. They recently picked up his 2020 option for $17.5 million so they can’t be too concerned. Andrus is a pretty heady comp for Sosa, but if Cleveland would see it that way, I wouldn’t be able to shake their hand fast enough.
I forgot they picked up his option; that is compelling. His health is still Wachaian; how much worth have we attached to him?
How about this concept? In order to get rid of one of the bad contracts, would you give up a top prospect not named Carlson?
Well I would have to see the particulars involved but in general I am not in favor of that concept. It is robbing Peter to pay Paul. The Cardinal model is dependent on a strong farm system so I wouldn’t want to deplete that. That would be a shortsighted move.
I would rather explore trading a bad contract for another bad contract, someone we think would rebound in St. Louis. Or we use the Leake model and eat money to get a trade done. Or we just take our medicine and ride out the storm until the bad contracts are gone.
Thank you gscottar. You have said everything that needs to be said to render this thread superfluous.
A trade thread has no validity until 2022.
I should clarify that I don’t see any BIG moves for the next year or two but we might still nibble around the edges here and there. But unless DeWitt authorizes a payroll jump there won’t be a big move until the Carp, Fowler, Cecil, and Leake money is gone and we clarify how much it will cost us to keep Yadi beyond 2020.
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