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I agree, stlcard25, though I hope they aim higher than Brad Miller. And the need to hit RHP is why Albert Pujols does not fit.
On the other hand it would be a way to get promising hopefuls more regular PAs. It could easily be argued that in house guys like Gorman, Yepez and Noot have earned it and should not be blocked.
Well the problem with putting those young guys as your bench, what if they struggle as young players tend to do. Sure you can send them down but you have to replace them. The options might not be as good then as the options are now.
I feel like the world is a bit backwards now. It wasn’t that long ago that bc was pushing for the veteran signing because he didn’t believe in the young players (who all had a better pedigree than any of the players in the mix for 2022 besides Gorman, BTW). Now we will likely add a DH to what was a middle of the pack offense and he’s ok with standing down and going with the youth. Quite the change of mind.
I wasn’t advocating for all of anything – all youngsters or all veterans. I believe a mix is healthier. Having a proven bat off the bench is something they lacked in 2021. As a group, Cardinals pinch hitters batted just .196 this past season. Expecting youngsters to step into that role with no other options could be setting yourself up for more struggles.
I wasn’t advocating for all of anything – all youngsters or all veterans. I believe a mix is healthier. Having a proven bat off the bench is something they lacked in 2021. As a group, Cardinals pinch hitters batted just .196 this past season. Expecting youngsters to step into that role with no other options could be setting yourself up for more struggles.
I’m not sure if you were responding to me or not, but I was referring to bccran and his infamous lack of faith in our offense/specifically young OFers.
I agree with your take entirely, Brian. I think at some point we have a lot of possibly good options for DH/platoon bats in Burleson, Yepez, maybe Donovan and a couple of possible starters in the upper minors like Gorman and Herrera (oddly, Jordan Walker may be in the upper minors next year too). It’s a good place for the offensive future of the club. But having a more known commodity at DH couldn’t hurt. Worst case, Mo pulls the veteran plug and moves the guy a la Allen Craig to clear space for the youth if they are hitting so well. I’d like to think that Marmol will be a little more open than Shildt to going with the youngsters if the vets aren’t seizing the spot, too.
I think the org is happy with how the all youth outfield approach worked out this year. Early shuffling and failures, but eventually the performers emerged. Without any commitment to a contract or blocking the pipeline. I can see something similar in 2022 with DH, bench and middle infield. Shuffle prospects and hopefuls and see what emerges.
That would leave us vulnerable in the area of everyday shortstop defense if Sosa goes down for a while. Nevertheless, I think that is how it will go. Maybe Mo finds a AAAA glove guy, shortstop capable, to park in Memphis, like how we had Dean and Hurst for emergency outfield depth. Nothing beyond that this winter on the position player side.
Very simple, Brian and 25. In 2019 Bader hit .205 and in 2020 he hit .226.
In 2020, O’Neill hit .173. That’s what you had during the off season last winter. Your OF bench had Willians and Thomas. I lobbied over the off season for an experienced OF bat. This coming season, the 3 young outfielders have some more experience under their belts and their performance improved. The situation is different.If Sosa goes down, Edman slides over to SS and Donovan moves into 2B until Gorman is ready. If Edman goes down, Donovan fills in until Gorman is ready.
Our bench was horrible last year, granted.
But look at how the numbers were skewed by Carp, DeJong, Williams, Thomas, Knizner, etc. 4 out of 5 of those will be gone.
The performances of DeJong and Carp were without excuse.With only in house people, the DH, bench, middle infield situation will not be any more precarious than the outfield situation was going into 2021 season.
The weaknesses would be backup shortstop defense and backup catcher, in the event the starter went down for a while.
I think a veteran LH DH bat like Schwarber would be optimal but I think the front office is sending every signal possible that they are not going to splurge on spending, therefore, a Brad Miller type or internal option is more likely.
Actually, bc, of the 5 names you mentioned, 1 is already gone, the option on 1 will not be picked up, 1 will probably be DFAed (I think Williams is out of options) and the other 2 will still be on the team unless they are traded.
With Yepez, Gorman, Donovan and Plummer all performing reasonably well at AAA last year, and Nootbaar performing reasonably well in his first year of MLB, I don’t see a need to bring in a “proven bat” with a low ceiling. A premium player will cost money and will not sign for a bench role.
Invest the money in pitching.
Intend to agree, LA. With the group of Yepez, Nootbaar, Donovan, Gorman, Burleson, Plummer, etc. we have a much better group to work with this year than we did last year.
Donovan has just 33 games and 111 ABs at Triple-A. Gorman has 76/303. Does anyone really think that Donovan is more ready/ahead of Gorman to reach StL?
Lars Nootbaar had 35 games at AAA before being promoted to the Cards. About the same as Donovan. But the Cards felt he was ready to try major league pitching.
That is a false equivalency. Nootbaar was only tried after Thomas, Dean, Szczur, Williams and Hurst had all been exhausted as options for the fourth OF.
You avoided the question why you believe Donovan is ahead of Gorman.
Easy to answer. Gorman is getting ready to be a starter. He needs just a little more grooming and needs to be in a lineup everyday. Getting as many plate appearances as possible. Keeping his endurance up. The place to start the season is AAA.
Donovan is a versatile player who is not vying (at least for now) for a starting position. He’s a contact hitter who plays multiple positions. Ideal to give him a shot at the major league roster.Anyone who has followed Gorman knows the pattern with him. He will scuffle as he adjusts to a new level and then take off once he has his footing. There’s no reason to believe he wouldn’t do the same if he started the season at the MLB level. He will likely start at Memphis and it won’t have anything to do with his readiness or getting regular plate appearances (he would do the same in St Louis). Hopefully the new CBA will put the kibosh to the service time manipulation and he’ll be starting at 2B opening day.
Donovan is actually the perfect candidate to get the treatment that bc suggests for Gorman. He started 2021 at high A and barely settled into each level before moving up. In no way is he ready for a role in St Louis and he will surely need seasoning and regular playing time at Memphis.
The overriding caveat is that Donovan will need to be added to the 40 man roster this fall and Gorman does not. Not saying it won’t happen, but Cards have a number of players to protect from the Rule 5 draft and may not have room for Gorman on the 40 man when the season begins.
64 – go down the 40 man and look at some of the names –
Happ
Lester
Kim
LeBlanc
Andrew Miller
Newsome
Quezada
Waddell
Zeuch
Carpenter
Maroff
DeanAnd you’re saying they don’t have room for Donovan?
Not what I meant to say at all, bcc. I was saying they may not have room for Gorman on the 40 man since he is not Rule 5 eligible. I think Donovan is a must add to the roster before Nov. 12.
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