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this offense is what we all pretty much assumed it would be before the season COVID or not…lacking punch and lacking impact additions from within to fix that.
It was built, just like the years previous, on the HOPE that several players would rebound more than on guys continuing positive trends.
Wong Edman had to continue to break out
DeJong can’t get worse
Yadi can’t decline quickly
Goldy has to get more consistent and be a star instead of an aging star
Carp has to be great again…and more consistent…just like we hoped for the last 2 years
Fowler has to be better
Bader has to be better
ONeill/Thomas have to match Ozuna lossWell…so far…
Bader still cant hit
Edman and Wong have took a step back
DeJong hasnt been around
Yadi is doing his part
Fowler is ok, but after last year being bad woudl be an improvement
Goldy is so so when he is supposed to be Pujols
Carp is just as iffy as ever
ONeill has had flashes, thomas isnt around nor doing well…Carlson was called on to solve all our problems and has rightfully come out slow…which he has every right to do being pushed so fast and being so young.
the others have been pretty lackluster…Ravelo, Dean, Nagowski, Sosa
Miller has stepped up, but even he was injured early
Schrock has been nice so farWho is doing “well” at all this year?
I see almost no consistency. I don’t care whether they were out for a 2 weeks or not, the first 5 games they werent all that great either, and in sPring Training they werent all that great either.
this team was built to struggle, we shouldnt be surprised that it is struggling, it has little chance of succeeding…outside of Fowler who was so low it was impossible to be worse….Bader however might have said the same thing, but somehow IS seemingly doing worse
We have an offense without it’s best part in DeJong, but let’s not act like DeJong is Mike Trout here or that the other parts of the offense were slam dunks for good play.
Edman and Wong’s offense carried the team late last year…along with Ozuna…
We have so many holes in the offense it just cant work IMO…without a severe change and addition or two…
Arenado + Merrifield
True star middle order banger and a true leadoff hitter…both will take investment and loss…both will not hurt you defensively, offensively, or on the basepaths…and in fact will strengthen you in each area.
You can come up with a ton of “whatabouts” or “stats” concerning Arenado or Merrifield that can make it seem like they arent the answer, but the eye test and the track records speak for themselves
I don’t care how many great young pitchers we have, if we dont have any hitters what is the point? We continuously push out competent starting pitchers to fill spots, we do not produce hitters of the caliber of Arenado or Merrifeld… so use what we have and get what we dont…and pay for it too…waiting 3 years to get Arenado cheaper (which is what we did with Goldy) doesn’t help…waiting 3 years for Merrifeld to be cheaper is pointless (which is what we did with DeRosa, or Mark Ellis, or a host of similar players)..
we know the deficiency in the team right now…we have known it for 3 years…we have known it since Pujols left, then HOlliday, the OT passed away…we got lucky with DeJong, and a year or two of Carp…we tossed away Grichuk and PIscotty and Mercado and Pham and several others…who are not terrible…and we have replaced them with equally enigmatic offensive players…
ugh…im babbling… sorry
Sorry, BW. Lane Thomas has spent 7 years in professional baseball and has one good year. He turns 25 in 2 days.
Carlson is 21 and has been shoved into the big show after only 79 AAA plate appearance. Apples and Oranges.Goldy is so so when he is supposed to be Pujols
A .943 OPS/157 OPS+ is so so? Not sure what makes you say that…
While some of your other points are valid, remember that it’s still early and COVID wasn’t something that could be planned for. Losing Dejong, Yadi and Thomas, who would all probably be starting if it weren’t for being on the DL, hurts…as it would hurt any team to lose two past/current all stars and a starting CF. Be a little patient and let’s see where we are once the lineup is back to normal and playing some games before making sweeping calls about how things are.
bccran, no matter their ages and their pedigrees, the three are competing for berths in the Cardinals outfield. What they do in the majors is what matters, not what they did in the past. I get that you don’t think as much of Thomas, but once healthy, he should get his chance like the others and the results should answer the question far more definitively than comparing past accomplishments.
Chances are that had it not been for COVID, it would be Thomas getting the extended trial in the OF right now and Carlson may have had to wait a bit longer. But circumstances are what they are. Once he returns, Thomas may have a tougher time squeezing into the OF rotation. A Bader decision could be to his benefit. This also assumes Carlson’s results begin to show by then…
bccran wrote:
2.) The Cards can improve their offense and stay within their payroll budget through a trade.
Again, that is easier said than done. In the “Trades and Rumors” thread I suggested a trade for Merrifield because he is on such a team friendly contract but the cost in prospects might be prohibitive. Any good veteran bat is going to cost a lot either in salary or in prospects and most teams aren’t going to want to take our bad contracts back in return.
jager wrote:
this offense is what we all pretty much assumed it would be before the season COVID or not…lacking punch and lacking impact additions from within to fix that.
this team was built to struggle, we shouldnt be surprised that it is struggling, it has little chance of succeeding…
I don’t disagree with your assessment of the offense, however, if the season ended today we would be in the playoffs and once you get in the playoffs anything can happen.
This team was built to win with pitching and defense and it can STILL do that. Winning a game 2-1 counts just the same as winning 10-1. Just win.
My assertion is that this team is going to have to go with pitching and defense until 2022 when it will finally have the payroll space to add the bats it needs.
bccran
Sorry, BW. Lane Thomas has spent 7 years in professional baseball and has one good year. He turns 25 in 2 days.
Carlson is 21 and has been shoved into the big show after only 79 AAA plate appearance. Apples and Oranges.By that way of thinking, Carlson has spent 5 years in professional baseball and has one good year. He turns 22 in a couple of months.
Thomas was shoved into the big show after only about 185 AAA plate appearances. Thomas has 2,027 minor league plate appearances. Carlson has had 1,712 minor league plate appearances. So it is apples to apples.
Forsch – Dylan Carlson ranks #18 on the MLB.com top 100 list for 2020. You can’t really be serious comparing Carlson and Thomas. And BW, yes, there is a big difference in maturity between a guy who was born 10/98 vs. 8/95. In maturity both on and off the field. Competition or not.
bccran, so all the other reasons you gave that it is apples to oranges don’t matter? Or do they? The target seems to be moving.
And if maturity level is an argument, are you saying that Carlson isn’t mature enough to be playing in the majors? After all, he is only hitting .129/.182/.169/.343.
The only reason Carlson is in the majors right now is because of the players in quarantine. He’s facing major league pitching at 21 years old after only 70+ some plate appearances at AAA. When Thomas was 21 years old he was in high A ball slashing .252/.319/.383/.702 at Dunedin and .257/.308/.314/.622 at Palm Beach.
There’s no moving any goal posts. You simply can’t compare 2 completely different situations. Let me ask you a question, Forsch. Why do you think Thomas is such a hot prospect? He had one decent season in 2018 and then fell back to earth in 2019.well to me none of these young guys has shown that they are going to be stud players, at best they seem to be just ok. But i still say with the year how its been, its hard to judge too much. I think we need to give it more time. We arent suddenly going to become a juggernaut. I will say this, we are lacking a stud. Goldy is great but hes more like an edmonds or a holiday as opposed to a pujols.
The Cardinals had intended for this to be a year to see what they have in the outfield. So, let the kids play. If there was ever a year to let the kids play through their struggles, this is it.
bccran, if you call a batting line of .274/.359/.488/.847 for all of 2019 as “falling back to earth”, then I hope he keeps it up every year.
Thomas has decent to good power. He is fast. He is a good defender with a primary position of CF. If you look close at his numbers, especially the last 2 years, he is very capable of putting up similar offensive numbers to Carlson.
BTW, 3B is looking real poor right now, as well.
LACardFan, I agree. Get everyone healthy and let O’Neill and Thomas get the primary opportunity to show what they can do. If Carlson doesn’t get going shortly, send him back to Springfield and let him work on some things. He can come back if he shows he has figured things out. Although Fowler hasn’t been on fire recently, he is still hitting well enough to continue to play, for now.
Lane Thomas is very capable of putting up the same offensive numbers as Carlson?
Boy do you have some prospect adoration there. A very sage scout told me one time to never get too enamored with any one prospect. You’ll be disappointed more times than not. The experts say Carlson has All Star potential. Thomas probably a nice #4.bccran asserted:
The experts say Carlson has All Star potential. Thomas probably a nice #4.
Please share links to these “expert” assessments on Thomas so I can educate myself. Thanks.
Any poster can educate themselves by going to various prospect rankings over the past several years and see where Thomas is ranked compared to Carlson. And by googling scouting reports on each.
Again, the goal posts move. Instead of showing reports that identify Thomas as a no. 4, you try to shift the discussion to relative prospect ranking. No one said that Carlson is not ranked higher. That would be ridiculous. Carlson may also have a higher ceiling, but that is NOT the discussion, either. Last time I checked, every MLB team has THREE outfield starters. So they BOTH could have starting potential and BOTH could realize it with St. Louis.
Either experts say Thomas is probably a no. 4 or they don’t. I haven’t seen such reports. You suggest you have. So where are they, please?
The discussion is actually with Forsch.
I’d like for Forsch to back up his statement that Thomas has as much offensive potential as Carlson. And this goalpost stuff is silly.This is a forum, and in forums, many people speak with many others. When one makes assertions, one should be willing to back them up. That kind of clarification is what you are asking from forsch. The non-answers to my reasonable question asked twice speak for themselves.
Bccran, where did you get the info that Thomas is only a #4? Who are the experts? I need to read those reports.
Also, I already pointed out that Thomas’ numbers the last 2 years show he is capable of matching/coming close to Carlson’s numbers.
And I’ve pointed out that you’re comparing apples and oranges, both in prospect ratings and age gap. Thomas is older by 3+ years and has more time in professional baseball. And when he was 21 he was non plus at AAA. Carlson has been our top prospect. Thomas has been ranked around #20.
Forsch – read the article on roto wire about Lane Thomas. Here are several quotes –
Thomas will seemingly enter the season as the 4th outfielder according to Mike Schildt.
Thomas did not force Schildt’s hand during the Grapefruit League or summer camp. The 24 year old outfielder was 3 for 11 in summer camp with 5 strike outs. That he might earn a platoon with O’Neill, however.
Hochman suggested that Thomas could enter a game as a pinch runner and stay in the game for defensive purposes.
The Cardinals skipper recently noted what he sees is Lane’s ability to churn out productive at bats off the bench and eventually serve as an effective designated hitter.
Sure sounds like a #4 to me.
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