Offense

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  • #135812
    Avatarbccran
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    I’m all for a trade, BW. Actually more so than a FA.

    #135816
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

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    I’m all for a trade, BW. Actually more so than a FA

    Who are some players you would target in a trade? And who would you trade? Other than Ozuna, I’m not sure you’ve mentioned any names at any point.

    #135821
    AvatarCards667
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    I wouldn’t mind having a guy that could play all 3 and be 20-60, 2 2B, 4 HR, 6 BB, 14 K .333/.394/.567 158 OPS+.
    I know it’s a small sample, but the return for him is a pitcher I think is still in KC organization and 2 injured, mediocre years of a RP who is now in Cleveland, pitching poorly.

    #135824
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I wouldn’t mind having a guy that could play all 3 and be 20-60, 2 2B, 4 HR, 6 BB, 14 K .333/.394/.567 158 OPS+.
    I know it’s a small sample, but the return for him is a pitcher I think is still in KC organization and 2 injured, mediocre years of a RP who is now in Cleveland, pitching poorly.

    Is that Randal Grichuk? I like your sense of mystery. Lol

    #135832
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

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    Over a much longer stretch, that same outfielder had a lower OPS+ last season than Dexter Fowler and in two of the last three full seasons, he had a below-MLB average OPS+.

    That Grichuk has enjoyed a strong 16 games to start this season is great. But he still is who he is. He also carries a large contract for which he appears to be overpaid.

    Pass.

    #135837
    Avatarforsch31
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    Brian, I see the post a little different. He is saying we don’t need anything at 3B because Montero and Gorman have high ceilings. Yet, Carlson and O’Neill have high ceilings and Montero could end up in the OF. That doesn’t make sense to me.

    I agree that it would have been great to have Ozuna back for 1 more year. However, Ozuna rolled the dice for a larger contract and finally settled for a cheap 1 year gamble that he could get that deal next year. The Cardinals had moved on by then.

    #135838
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    We have some offense coming back soon: DeJong and Thomas and some potential bats in Molina. Ravelo, Dean and Sosa. This is a good time to see what we have as far as the young outfielders go. The small samples we have this season are just that. Carlson is the big prize and he’ll need time so a little patience is required. Fowler is providing some offense…. more than the low expectations.

    Ozuna is gone…. water under the bridge. Anyway good riddance. Now Atlanta has to watch him try to play in the outfield.

    #135839
    Avatarbccran
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    25 –

    Let me give you a profile instead. Someone perhaps from a smaller market team that is about to get expensive through arbitration. Or already in arbitration years and a year or two away from free agency. Proven major leaguer. Perhaps somewhere close to a Heyward/Ozuna type profile. Right now, I don’t have time to do the research on that for 29 major league teams. Who would I trade? Several of our pitchers like we have done before. We’re shoulder deep in fine young pitching prospects. Guys like Woodford, Cabrera, Rondon, Oviedo, Seijas, etc.

    #135840
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    We traded away some good young pitching to get Ozuna and more in the Goldschmidt trade. I think Mozeliak will stay away from that strategy for awhile.

    #135846
    Avatargscottar
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    I would take Tyler O’Neill over Marcel Ozuna everyday of the week. I don’t think there will be a big difference in there production this year but there is a huge difference in salary. Why would a team pay $18M for a player when you can get similar production for 563k?

    #135849
    Avatarbccran
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    If he does, 14, we may continue to suffer offensively.
    Right now we rank 23rd in BA, 26th in OBP, 25th in slugging percentage, and 25th in OPS. Hopefully we will improve somewhat in those areas when some of our regulars come back, but do you really believe that we’ll improve on our 2019 ranking of #19 in runs scored?

    #135850
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

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    Let me give you a profile instead. Someone perhaps from a smaller market team that is about to get expensive through arbitration. Or already in arbitration years and a year or two away from free agency. Proven major leaguer. Perhaps somewhere close to a Heyward/Ozuna type profile. Right now, I don’t have time to do the research on that for 29 major league teams. Who would I trade? Several of our pitchers like we have done before. We’re shoulder deep in fine young pitching prospects. Guys like Woodford, Cabrera, Rondon, Oviedo, Seijas, etc.

    There’s not a lot of those guys out there. One I was very interested in before last year was Max Kepler. He ended up having a great 2019 so the Twins would keep him.

    #135852
    Avatarforsch31
    Participant

    Free

    Why is no one saying anything about Tommy Edman or Kolten Wong? They are hurting the team just as much as any of the Ofers.

    #135860
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Very true, Forsch31. We have some pop with Goldy and DeJong, but can we really expect top notch impactful offensive performances out of Carpenter, Wong, Edman, and Yadi?
    That’s why I go back to the outfield, at lease until
    Montero, Gorman, etc. arrive to hopefully give us some more pop. And it’s very true that Montero could end up at an OF corner.

    #135866
    Avatarbccran
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    Fowler in the twilight
    Bader a late inning replacement
    Thomas a #4 type.
    Williams a #4 type.
    Carlson has star potential.
    O’Neill has star potential.
    Missing that proven guy.

    #135867
    Avatarforsch31
    Participant

    Free

    It would be just as easy to say that they need a 3Bman instead of an OFer. There is more of a chance to get impactful offensive performances out of O’Neill, Thomas and Carlson than anyone we have at 3B.

    #135868
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    That’s all fine and good until Mr Proven becomes Fowler Lite and you’re stuck with a bunch of unproven players that you never really vetted that you’re forced to trade for spare parts. That’s basically what happened when we signed Fowler.

    #135925
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

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    Don’t sign a FA you don’t know to a long term contract. Didn’t work with Leake. Didn’t work with Fowler.

    #135936
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Yeah, good thing they passed on Scherzer. Sure, they need to be careful, but your rules can’t apply to every situation. Sometimes, teams have to take prudent risk. They don’t have a complete menu of options to choose from all of the time. But the second-guessing is always clear…

    #135957
    AvatarCards667
    Participant

    Free

    “Pass”

    2-4 2 HR today.

    I always liked him and hated the trade. And the fact they have nothing to show for him makes it worse to me.

    #135968
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    I hated giving up Alcantara in that deal. But we were desperate for a big bat, and Ozuna had the monster year in ’17.

    #135976
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Not for taking prudent risks with long term contracts for free agents, BW. I believe BDW feels the same way. Grow your own and trade for guys you can get a feel for before extending. It’s the business plan that has kept us in the hunt year after year for a long time.

    #135977
    Avatar1982 willie
    Participant

    Free

    i always liked grichuk though he never really got over the hump here. I still say patience. Also you guys act like these guys have been out working on things while they were out with the covid stuff. Sure they can all hit a fastball or a mistake down the middle but to really hit in pressure situations against good pitching, we just have to be patient.

    #135982
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    bccran said:

    I believe BDW feels the same way

    Again, you contradict yourself. On one hand, you directly cited several bad contracts the Cardinals made, but then you state the guy who signs off on them is against such deals. What about the rumor that he was the one pushing for Stanton, not his baseball ops staff?

    #135985
    Avatarbccran
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    I don’t contradict myself. I’ve quoted many times how BDW wants to get to see how a player is as a teammate, how he interfaces with the manager and coaches, and how he is with the fans and in the community before he makes a long term significant investment in that player. Bill has stated that publicly and privately. He went outside that framework with Leake, Fowler, and Cecil. Irregardless of what happened with Stanton, it’s still Bill’s philosophy. Sorry, no “contradiction”.

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