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  • #135694
    Avatarbccran
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    Stats coming out of the (staggered) gate –

    Goldy – .314/.385/.514/.899
    Dexter – .308/.333/.538/.872
    Tyler – .200/.314/.533/.848
    Paul DJ – .235/.316/.471/.786
    Tommy – .189/.250/.351/.601
    Harry – .176/.333/.235/.569
    Carp – .184/.286/.226/.512
    Kolten – .167/.242/.233/.476
    Yadi – .222/.222/.222/.444
    Carlson – .118/.167/.176/.343

    Very early (or is it?). Need to get the bats going fast.

    The main free agent signing in the winter was Miller.
    He’s right now at .444/.455/1.222/1.677. Maybe we should have gotten that free agent outfielder some of us talked about in the off season.

    #135696
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    bccran said:

    Maybe we should have gotten that free agent outfielder some of us talked about in the off season.

    Man, you love to beat that drum. I will play along. Had you signed that guy, you would have benched Fowler, who is one of the guys playing especially well.

    But in reality, 10 games (or less) under very trying circumstances is hardly a fair window to evaluate anyone.

    #135697
    Avatarbccran
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    Actually, the more I think about it, BW, I would have benched
    Bader and used him as a late inning defensive replacement. As they’re doing now.

    #135698
    Avatar858booyah
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    Which FA outfielder? Dickerson?

    Yeah I’ll admit it’s a little early to start benching guys but I’d say at least against righthanded starting pitchers Miller needs some run. Maybe even replace Edman in the lineup.

    #135699
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    So, you would signed a free agent center fielder, bccran? That is new.

    #135701
    Avatarbccran
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    No, I actually probably would have signed Ozuna to a short term deal. Like Atlanta did. Tell him to bring his best deal back to us to match it or go a little better. His line right now is .253/.370/.494/.864. The guy was one of the reasons we made the final 4 last year.

    #135704
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    If Bader is the fourth OF, then who is playing in center in between Ozuna and Fowler?

    #135710
    Avatarbccran
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    Personal opinion, but I think O’Neill can play CF. He has the speed. Have a competition between he, Bader, and Thomas.
    Or have Carlson in CF.

    #135711
    Avatar858booyah
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    O’Neill takes some odd approaches to some balls in LF. IDK he’d be anything but a temporary solution. They may actually play Fowler in CF some as well in that scenario.

    #135713
    Avatarbccran
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    That’s fine to play Fowler in CF upon occasion.

    My point again is that Ozuna was one of the top 3 producers in the lineup last year in HR, RBI, TB, etc. Goldy played in 161 games. DeJong in 159. Fowler in 150. Wong in 148. When he was in there, Ozuna was productive and an integral part of the lineup. A lineup that made it to the NLCS. And yet you let Atlanta sign him to a one year contract, when he wanted to stay in St. Louis? Why? To give unproven guys a chance? In a multi state Cardinal Nation that hopes for another Championship? Sure, feed the young guys in. But one at a time as they truly deserve it.

    #135714
    Avatar1982 willie
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    i think our outfielders are fine, especially the younger ones. I was never an ozuna fan but i appreciate defense more than most. As far as a free agent, it would have been a certain third baseman.

    #135717
    Avatarbccran
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    Willie –
    Every contending team has at least one proven big bat in the OF. Who’s ours?

    #135720
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    We have 5 losses and 3 belong to the pitching, imo. Hudsons first start, Martinez first start and Webb last night.
    Two belong to the lineup. In the Ponce start the lineup was shutout. Vs Keuchel, Hudson pitched better but the lineup scored only 2 runs.

    #135725
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
    Moderator

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    My opinion re: Marcell – From his side I would have taken the $18M QO. From the Cards side, I would have done the same thing they did. But I have always felt O’Neill can play if you stay with him. Plus you have Carlson in the wings.

    However, had we signed Ozuna for around the same deal as Atlanta I would have been okay. So all in all, not a big deal either way. I am glad O’Neill is getting a shot.

    #135726
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    bccran said:

    Every contending team has at least one proven big bat in the OF. Who’s ours?

    Who is that in Tampa Bay? Cleveland? Oakland? etc…

    The grass is not always greener.

    Also, the idea of playing O’Neill and Fowler at all, let alone in CF, is not what I recall you were saying all winter. It feels like you have retroactively adjusted your off-season plan based on who is hitting well now… 😉

    (Based on the roster, your last preferred OF was Carlson, Dean and Ravelo. That would be breaking in THREE new guys.)

    #135735
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
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    Baez striking out on that pitch on the outside corner shows one of the changes in the game from the past. That was a pitch where with 2 strikes you keep your head down and focus on making contact, hitting that pitch to right field. Not everyone did that, but a lot of guys would. Now you mostly look to jack the pitch regardless of count or location.

    #135736
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
    Moderator

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    Oops, wrong thread on that post!

    #135737
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    Oops, wrong thread on that post!

    #135757
    Avatarbccran
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    I’ve been very steady on needing a proven outfielder, BW. Ever since they went into the last off season. We don’t have any pop out there, except for maybe O’Neill.

    You bring up Tampa Bay, Cleveland, and Oakland. Let’s take Oakland first. How about Ramon Laureano. Take a look at his numbers last season, and also so far this season. No one close to that on the Cardinals. Indians? They can get away with it with 2 players who had home runs in the 30s and 2 with home runs in the 20s at other positions. The Cards don’t have that in the non outfield lineup. Not even close. I’ll give you Tampa Bay.

    #135771
    Avatar1982 willie
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    well bccran, you can get pop from other places, it doesnt have to be the outfield. There are nine spots if you count dh. Im fine with seeing where we need to go with all these outfielders. But im also a lifelong cardinal fan who doesnt get into the its a bust if we dont win it all. We had a great year last year, unseated the cubs which was the best thing we did. If we dont win big this year but we learn more about our players so we can have an even better 2021, ill be fine.

    #135772
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    bccran said:

    I’ve been very steady on needing a proven outfielder, BW.

    Yes, you have. But I did not question that. In fact, I specifically commented earlier that you continue to beat that drum.

    However, that is not germane to the point of the other outfielders in the lineup, for whom it appears your allegiance has been shifting.

    At least we have determined so far that no, in fact, not every contending team has a proven big bat in the OF. So there’s that. Of course, one could emerge if one looks forward rather than backward. Some think Dylan Carlson could become that. Others see it in Tyler O’Neill.

    #135796
    AvatarTexasCard
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    The Cardinals main problem isn’t the outfield it’s the corner infield spot at third base. They haven’t had a legitimate third baseman in 13 years with the lone and very short lived stint by David Freese. Scott Rolen was the last threat they had there. Carpenter is a defensive liability there and his bat hasn’t been a threat in some time. They used to have guys like Pujols and Rolen. Now they trot out there Goldy and a utility player playing for the league minimum and you get what you pay for which in this case not much. The outfield has promise the future at third is still in the minors or on another team.

    #135799
    Avatarbccran
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    We have some high ceiling guys at 3B, coming through the mid system but the OF is a different story. Montero and Gorman aren’t that far away. With the OF, what you see is pretty much what you’ve got for a number of years. Should have signed Ozuna.

    #135801
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I think Montero ends up in the OF if he hits. Edman has the flexibility to play OF too.

    Ozuna is an average player who is overpaid. We wasted two pretty good starting pitchers to trade for him. He’s better than Fowler but I’d rather have O’Neill, Thomas and Carlson.

    I’ll also add that Ozuna could have taken the QO and stayed. He got a whopping 200K more to sign with Atlanta. His draft pick was used to draft Alec Burleson, who I’m not excited about, but the slot money allowed them to sign guys like Winn and Bedell, who I am excited about, to overslot deals.

    #135803
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    bccran said:

    With the OF, what you see is pretty much what you’ve got for a number of years. Should have signed Ozuna.

    Don’t you see the fallacy in your own statement?

    The team cannot get help in the outfield for years into the future via trade or free agency. They are stuck.

    So they should have resigned the guy they got two years ago in trade.

    (Further, the guy they got in trade a year ago is their best hitter right now.)

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