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Nothing like mentions of Luis Robert to bring out stupidity. Here, Mike Matheny is being criticized because he apparently did not know the Cardinals international department had been scouting a Cuban teenager who would later emerge as a star. It is amazing how little some know about how MLB teams operate and sad how far they carry grudges.
Love to see the continuity throughout the Cardinals organization, from the top down. 😬 https://t.co/BnG8GDG9Bt
— stlCupofJoe (@stlCupofJoe) September 4, 2020
Completely unfair to criticize Matheny on that one. That whole thing went down in season as well, so there’s no way he should or would have been involved.
Brian –
I’ve talked about the Berkman/Beltran model. I’ve talked about the Goldy/Heyward/Ozuna model. And I’ve talked about the Tyler O’Neill model. And given possibilities under each model.
“No job is too hard if you don’t have to do it.” And that is how I look at all baseball writers who go beyond reporting on facts and start to inject their speculation into it. That’s when they become little more than scribblers. They don’t have to do the job but feel free to criticize the way it was done without full knowledge of any reasons for that.
There’s no way I’d start Carlson other than doubleheaders the rest of the year. He’s overmatched and it shows. O’Neill still is hitting the ball decently, and his fortunes should change soon.
So you just don’t try to improve your #1 prospect who has shown very good defense – I am not sure I have seen any that he missed that Harry would have caught. I am not a stat minder so my fondest collection of Harry’s son is when he was sent down to learn how to improve his pitch recognition. ONeil also went down but to Springfield and looked terrible his whole time in AA. Harry did a nice job in Memphis and looked like he turned a new leaf when he got back. He was not going for that sucker low and away slider any more…..well at least for a while but Harry’s lessons did not prove to be permanent and soon he was swishing away again. I take your word for it that he had a hot run lately and I do recall him hitting some dingers and doing some good base running in a few games, emphasize FEW games. I don’t have a clue as to who should be playing the outfield but I have never understood the love affair some have with Thomas. He may be great or not – I just can’t recall him consistently doing anything that was memorable. ONeil I was hoping would be traded for someone better but I guess he can improve with time. His defense is good. But I just must have missed him hitting the ball decently as quoted above. Now it is time to get ready for our next mission – 5 games in Wrigley making it NO Cubs games at home this season. PLAY BALL
As of current the Cardinals have the worst offensive outfield in MLB.
Pay no attention to the St. LOuis Coffee Cup. That is the same guy who tweeted about CMart being sick ladt year and insinuated he was hungover with zero evidence and then deleted the tweets and blocked people who called him out on his bs.
Just checked fantasy OFer rankings on mlb.com. No Cardinals in tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, tier 4, or tier 5. Cardinal nation deserves better.
I’d expect CLE and PIT to have the worst offensive outfields. I haven’t seen much of them lately but TEX should be near the bottom also. I’d ballpark the STL outfield as 25th, offensively.
Hard to believe that there are teams with OFs worse offensively than our 7-8-9 batters. How is this possible? The young guys haven’t yet to get it done on the big stage. I’m pulling for all of them but right now its not pretty and tough to watch.
Especially if we think of that outfield in their prime seasons, Ny.
That’s the rub with our current outfield, we’re graduating outfielders to MLB, but as a develop from within org, it’s necessary. O’Neill, Carlson and Thomas probably don’t have 600 career PA’s combined.
2000 – Edmonds, Langford, Drew
2001 – Edmonds, Langford, Drew
2002 – Pujols, Edmonds, Drew
2003 – Pujols, Edmonds, Drew
2004 – Langford, Edmonds, Sanders
2005 – Sanders, Edmonds, Walker
2006 – Edmonds, Encarnacion, Taguchi
2007 – Edmonds, Encarnacion, Duncan
2008 – Schumacher, Ankiel, Ludwick
2009 – Holliday, Rasmus, Ludwick
2010 – Holliday, Rasmus, Ludwick
2011 – Holliday, Rasmus, Berkman
2012 – Holliday, Jay, Beltran
2013 – Holliday, Jay, Beltran
2014 – Holliday, Jay, Craig
2015 – Holliday, Bourjos, Heyward
2016 – Holliday, Grichuk, Piscotty
2017 – Pham, Fowler, Piscotty
2018 – Ozuna, Pham, Fowler
2019 – Ozuna, Bader, Fowler
2020 – O’Neill, Bader, FowlerGone downhill every year since 2017 (the year of MM’s demise)
Bader was the best outfielder in 2018 and you didn’t list him. Bader also had the highest brWAR in 2019, both during the “Ozuna years”. Bwahahaha
I’ll choose to be patient with this outfields offensive production, cranny. I like outfielders who can run, catch and throw; and I don’t see a finer defensive outfield in MLB, 5 deep if you count Edman. Overall production I’ll ballpark them as 15th
Dex is the best offensive OFer on the team and its not close and now he is on the IL. Ugh!
To put some perspective in the numbers:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/1301906821637169156
If you’re going to give Thomas a shot, why not give a shot to Williams?
At Memphis last season in 36 games –
.353/.437/.608/1.0456’2”, 215 lbs.
Left handed batLast time I checked there were 28 roster spots on each team this year, not 3. Why are we only focused on the 3 OF spots? This is a team sport. Each team is going to have weak areas and they have to make up for it in other areas.
Look at the Angels OF. Trout, Upton, and some days Ohtani. Not too bad yet as a team they suck.
This is from Jeff Gordon’s chat yesterday in the P-D and is exactly what I have been saying.
What will the Cards outfield look like in 2021?
I’m guessing it will be the same guys — Fowler, Carlson and whichever of the O’Neill/Thomas/Bader trio can hit well enough to earn a spot. The Cardinals won’t be looking to add payroll given the economic hit baseball took with the pandemic, so anybody coming in from the outside would have to arrive with a modest salary.
Jeff Gordon
DsFan –
There’s a huge gap in talent below the existing guys. Maybe Montero has promise if shifted from 3B. The outfields in the middle levels were abysmal. Maybe one guy – Torres. Below that are kids Fletcher and Walker, who are a long way away. If O’Neill, Bader, Carlson, Thomas, and Williams don’t work out, we’re in a world of outfield hurt and will be forced to go outside.“If you’re going to give Thomas a shot, why not give a shot to Williams?
At Memphis last season in 36 games –
.353/.437/.608/1.0456’2”, 215 lbs.
Left handed bat”Maybe he shouldn’t have punched a TV in a domestic dispute and cost him so much of the season, shown better in spring and summer. I haven’t seen a lot if him. But what I have seen tells me Cabrera was the target, Ramirez was flyer on his breaking ball, Williams was a LH bat on the 40 man TB had to clear, but the main target was getting something for Pham’s disruptive attitude off the team.
The PCL was offensive crazy last season. And everything I’ve seen Williams isn’t close to the talent of O’Neill who I trust the least of Carlson, Thomas, Bader, O’Neill.The important detail we lack is how Williams is performing in Springfield. Of course, someone would need to be optioned out to make room…
Williams looked like he needed a lot more development in ST 1.0. He had a couple of big hits, but not MLB ready at all. I’m not suggesting he can’t/won’t get there, but doesn’t seem ready just yet.
As a point of interest, Cabrera was ranked the #17 prospect in the Rays system. Williams was ranked #7.
Rankings from two years ago are only mildly interesting, IMO. Since then, in the Cardinals system, Cabrera (age 23) has progressed and Williams (age 25) has not, hence they essentially changed places in the rankings.
In camp, Williams did not show good instincts on defense and was not consistent enough on offense to put himself into the picture. (A contrast with Austin Dean, who did distinguish himself.) As already noted, no one here knows how Williams is doing in Springfield. His current course and speed is two years in the system with zero MLB at-bats, which does not bode well for his future.
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