- This topic has 1,131 replies, 47 voices, and was last updated 5 months, 4 weeks ago by
.
-
Posts
-
That’s probaby the reality, but Arenado will almost certainly be better prepared for retirement that Coco LaBoy…Now there’s a pretty good baseball name.
Fedde should be higher on this list. Heck, he should’ve already been traded. The Cardinals announced to begin the offseason that they were going to step back and focus on player development. They’ve been trying to trade Arenado for months, to no avail. Their payroll isn’t down as low as ownership would like, it would seem. Beyond that, the step toward a youth movement seems to strongly eliminate the chances of the Cards contending. Fedde is being paid a bargain $7.5MM and is a free agent at season’s end. If the Cardinals are trying to contend, they should add around players like this. If they’re trying to step back and focus on development, Fedde should be shopped for prospect help since he’ll be gone next winter and isn’t a guarantee to remain healthy/productive until the deadline. As Anthony Franco recently wrote, the St. Louis offseason has been a half measure, and not a very productive one at that.
MLBTR roasting the Cardinals front office for having no clue…
All of the Fedde points made above apply here — and then some. Helsley is a dominant closer earning an affordable $8.2MM salary — the type of player every single contender would love to get its hands on. The Cardinals, a team that won 83 games last year and has not meaningfully added to the roster, could fetch a sizable return for him. Trading him prior to the season gives his new club the chance to make a qualifying offer at season’s end, thus increasing his trade value. (Ditto Fedde, for that matter.) Yet all reports out of St. Louis have suggested the Cards plan to hold onto Helsley and Fedde. If the Cardinals want to back their way into Wild Card contention, they should be trying to add to the roster. If they want to retool, they should be shopping short-term assets. Holding Helsley until the deadline lowers his trade value and creates the risk of an injury or downturn in performance. Relievers are baseball’s most fickle asset. The Cardinals seem caught in the middle. It’s perplexing.
There’s that phrase again – caught in the middle. And yes, it is perplexing that the Cardinals don’t seem to understand they need to be adding prospects if they plan to compete in 2026 and beyond.
Ask yourself a couple questions first LACard prior to quoting this sort of fodder:
1) Does it make any difference to the long term needs of the team if either of those guys is traded in December vs March?
2) When does a trading team have the most leverage – when there are 250 free agents available or when there are 30?
There is no reason to trade away assets before their value is highest unless an overwhelming offer comes along. Do we know that the Cardinals are just passing up overwhelming offers and just ignoring them? That seems doubtful. Ignore the clickbait. Judge the final outcome, not prior to it.
We wont’ be caught in the middle much longer. Bills broke and what few tradeable assets he has, will be gone by seasons end. A middling budget and W/L record this time next offseason, will possibly be viewed as the good ol’ days, if Bill gets his way.
Jocketty was canned for philosophical reasons too. Trying to build a jewel of a farm THIS TIME, is code for Bill withdrawing from providing a competitive player budget.
Bill has set a course for a bottom third player budget and a jewel of a farm that can compete with the LA and NY. Good luck Bloom.
Fedde at bat, Matz on deck, Arenado in the hole, IMO.
As I have said all winter Mo needs to pivot to plan B and C and D. The chances of an Arenado trade seem to be dwindling as each day passes so Helsley, Fedde, and Matz should be in the trade queue now.
If they do end up stuck with Arenado I think they need to give Gorman plenty of reps at 3B. Let Nado hit against lefties to boost his stats then ship him out in July.
There is no reason to trade away assets before their value is highest unless an overwhelming offer comes along. Do we know that the Cardinals are just passing up overwhelming offers and just ignoring them?
What we know is the Cardinals have been telling other teams they are planning to keep Helsley and not trade Fedde until closer to the deadline.
The Cardinals don’t even know what offers they are passing up, because they are just shutting down talks before they start.
It’s a laghably bad way to seek the best deals.
I think there may be a difference between saying you aren’t seeking to trade a player and completely blocking a trade. My daughter goes to the mall and says she isn’t shopping for clothes and still often buys them. My point is that I’m sure the Cardinals are still listening to other teams’ inquiries and are still likely willing to trade if they think the offer is good.
I just don’t like to judge them prematurely. There may be a much better offer in March than what was there in December and if that is the case, then I’m glad they waited. As for Helsley, assuming he doesn’t get injured, he probably is worth around the same value at the deadline as he is today. That’s just the way supply/demand works for good relievers. Therefore, I’m ok with waiting. But I do wholeheartedly want them to trade Fedde by the start of the season.
LA, Bill has been a seller since Middleton signed, and he still is. I will guess his priority today is how do i get to 116mil (+/-) on opening day, and trade returns are secondary.
He is well aware 45mil of our FA’s-to-be walk away ten months from now, that’s the finish line for him. Why would he pay 138mil to get there, when dumping Arenado or a mix of players can start the season around 116mil?
In case there were any doubts…..
John Mozeliak says trading Nolan Arenado remains “Priority 1, 2 and 3” but acknowledges the team remains in a holding pattern due to the FA market. He would like to add to the bullpen/maybe a RH-bat, but won’t before they have clarity on Arenado’s future.
More on @TheAthletic
— Katie Woo (@katiejwoo) January 18, 2025
jnevel wrote:
As for Helsley, assuming he doesn’t get injured, he probably is worth around the same value at the deadline as he is today.
Is it worth the risk for a team that really isn’t trying to compete?
If stadium revenue crashes more, will the reset take another season? Will Bill need more of the player budget in 2026 because he ignored his best revenue stream in 25′? Helsley has unique value connected to ticket sales.
My point is that I’m sure the Cardinals are still listening to other teams’ inquiries and are still likely willing to trade if they think the offer is good.
If the Cardinals were listening to offers, we would be hearing how astronomically high their asking prices are.
Instead we are hearing how they have given other team the impression that are not trading Helsley at all and have told other teams they are planning on holding Fedde until closer to the trade deadline.
I just don’t like to judge them prematurely. There may be a much better offer in March than what was there in December and if that is the case, then I’m glad they waited.
All the reporting is they aren’t even listening to offers.
Do you think it is better to listen to offers when 25 teams are trying to upgrade their rosters, or in training camp, when most teams have their rosters already set?
I would rather have 25 teams trying to outdo each other.
I agree JJ. If someone pays us well over value on Helsley, then take it. If not, play him and compete. The haul of prospects is not going to be all that great now or at the deadline based off past elite closer trades. And it’s actually not going to diminish much based off past history whether he goes now or later. Yes, he might get injured. But again, it’s not like the prospects coming back are likely to be difference makers. Therefore, I’d keep him for now unless a great offer materializes.
Fedde on the other hand should net a pretty good prospect haul if traded now whereas his trade value is likely far less at the deadline (unless he repeats last year’s performance). And, we have backup starting pitchers now that need to play. We might win a couple less games, but I don’t think Fedde is as critical as Helsley is in that department. So I’d trade him. I’ll be disappointed if they don’t. Disappointed unless the team ends up being good, which is still entirely possible if Walker and Gorman hit well and we get a little lucky. But I wouldn’t count on it so I’d trade Fedde by the start of the season.
LA, it’s supply and demand. When the season isn’t happening, demand is lowest. And, supply is highest because of all the free agents running around. As you get closer to the season starting, guys get hurt in Spring training and demand goes up while supply is down because free agents aren’t out there to get.
I seriously doubt the notion that the Cardinals aren’t willing to listen to offers for Fedde or Helsley.
LA, Bill has been a seller since Middleton signed, and he still is. I will guess his priority today is how do i get to 116mil (+/-) on opening day, and trade returns are secondary.
He is well aware 45mil of our FA’s-to-be walk away ten months from now, that’s the finish line for him. Why would he pay 138mil to get there, when dumping Arenado or a mix of players can start the season around 116mil?
Convoluted way of asking things jj, but let me try to answer.
The Cardinals had a press conference where they announced they were going to do a “reset”, not a traditional rebuild. They said they expect to compete in 2026.
It since came out that they attempted to do a total rebuild, but were blocked by their last two FA signings.
It also came out their primary motivation in moving Arenado is dumping salary, not getting prospects back.
Now, a traditional rebuild has three phases – the salary clearing phase where you get out of all the high-money contracts you can and trade players that are not going to be part of your next window of contention for prospects.
Then you have the awful performance phase where you are playing minor leaguers at the major league level and hoping they get better.
Then, hopefully, you have the rebuild phase where the minor leaguers that were playing at the major-league level get better and start winning games. As you win more games, more fans come back. As you get closer to a winning team, you start investing in free agents to complement the team.
The Cardinals said they are going to do all this in one year (which was absurd on its face). It’s going to take them three years to get out of all their high-priced contracts. They have players in the final years of their deals that they could trade for prospects that will help them in 2026 and beyond, but are not yet doing so.
Bill does not have a desire to have a payroll at $116 million. He wanted it much, much lower.
If the Cardinals want to compete in 2026, they need to upgrade their 20th-ranked farm system and get some prospects who can contribute in 2026 & beyond. Indications they are unwilling to do that.
Now they are talking about how they want to compete in 2025, but they can’t do anything until they move Arenado.
Their indecisiveness is absurd.
If stadium revenue crashes more, will the reset take another season?
I don’t think the reset will be fully over until Arenado, Gray, and Contreras are ALL off of the books.
I don’t think the reset will be fully over until Arenado, Gray, and Contreras are ALL off of the books.
Agreed. The one-year “reset” was their marketing spin.
Mozeliak said he hadn’t yet spoken with Arenado or his camp about possibly expanding the third baseman’s list of preferred trade destinations. In fact, Mozeliak said he hadn’t directly spoken with Arenado for close to a month, as the two last had contact before the holidays.
And this is why the Cardinals efforts to trade Arenado are failing. They aren’t even talking!!!
Mozeliak provided some explanation for not moving Fedde or Matz today, noting that the Cards “don’t really love [the] idea” of potentially leaving the team short-handed on the pitching front. “We really feel like we have some depth in our rotation right now, so I really don’t want to start preparing tearing away from that, in terms of thinking about moving a position player to achieve some financial goals,” Mozeliak said. “That would be something we could consider as well, but we really don’t want to.”
There you go, jnevel. Mo says he doesn’t want to trade Matz and Fedde because he wants depth in the rotation in a year where the Cardinals have said they are not going to compete.
The failures of this offseason are 100% on Mo.
LACF said:
And this is why the Cardinals efforts to trade Arenado are failing. They aren’t even talking!!!
No, they could talk to one another every day and it wouldn’t matter one iota. What is needed is for one of them to find a team acceptable to Arenado that will take him at a price acceptable to the Cardinals.
Mo also said today that trading Arenado is their current priority 1, 2 and 3. What we don’t know is if they will increase the amount of cash or take lesser players in trade. Mo also suggested today that the Astros trade would have helped them fill roster needs.
It seems they are waiting to induce one of the runners up for Bregman to take Arenado.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.