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I don’t follow the drafts. Was Walker a “best player available?”
Back then the FO acquired as if “offense sells tickets”. Maybe Walker was “best bat available”?
Three summers is a long time to have the outfield training wheels on.
jj, I think the way Cardinals player acquisition worked is a kid drills a mistake into the parking lot and everybody’s eyes roll back in their head and they forget anything else exists in baseball.
That’s just not accurate Bling. The organization deserves some criticism, but don’t go too far off the rails. Winn, Donovan, Noot, Vs2, Davis, all nice toolsy players.
jj said:
Holy cow! Since AA?
Didn’t realize that.Well, the elapsed time was shorter than expected, because initially, they rushed Walker to the majors, skipping Triple-A.
If he was an outfielder in AA, it’s been 3 season at different levels playing OF?
Offseason? Walkers work habits are praised, so he’s likely spending at least 10 months a year, developing that D? AFL time?
I know I’m asking questions (above and now) that aren’t getting answered, so I’ll drop it. Was just trying to understand how the FO has wrecked a 1st rounder.
Walkers D right now reminds me of Chris Duncan, and he had his moments, maybe Jordan can.
He’s much better than Duncan in the sense that he has the speed to chase down balls. I still expect him to get to at least average if not better. But maybe not by this season.
I don’t follow the drafts. Was Walker a “best player available?”
Back then the FO acquired as if “offense sells tickets”. Maybe Walker was “best bat available”?
Many of the Cards drafts since the 2014 draft (Luke Weaver) have netted first round picks that were projected to go higher in the draft, but fell a bit for whatever reason. Nick Plummer (cold weather bat), Delvin Perez (roids), Nolan Gorman, Zack Thompson and Jordan Walker all fell into this category. On Walker specifically, I recall that he was looking like a higher pick at one point, but slid a little to the Cards at 21. Lots of power and solid athleticism but the big frame meant he didn’t have a lot of leeway to stick at 3B. But he was a Duke commit and a pretty smart kid, so it seemed a solid bet that he’d figure it out. I hope he still can because he’s got tremendous talent.
That is a bit misleading. The big difference is that they started the move when Walker was in Double-A. That is also when they began Gorman’s move to second base.
Talk about misleading.
Walker played 249 innings at 2B in AA and the Cardinals declared him ready for MLB.
Gorman played 662 innings at 2B in 2021 and 299 innings in 2022 before becoming a MLB regular.
Who was playing the outfield when the Cardinals publicly shamed Willson Contreras for his defense? That’s right. Jordan Walker & Alec Burleson. Two of the absolute worst outfielders you can put on the field.
Of course, a year later, the Cardinals admitted they had gutted their player development program, had no outfield coaches and no analytics staff.
Willie McGee had been the MLB coach responsible for OF. Maybe the new guy Jon Jay will be able to help Walker more going forward.
Two years ago, the Cardinals got excited about Walker’s offense and worried less about his glove. As a result he lost those Triple-A reps. FWIW, I suspect there would still be less focus on his defense today if he was hitting. In 2024, he didn’t excel in either.
This isn’t just about Walker. Donny is a 2Bman playing LF. Gorman is a 3rd baseman playing second base. Willson is a catcher headed for 1B/DH. Walker is a third baseman playing right.
So if they stick Noot in CF…..
Its so out of control it’s stupid funny. Wait, Burly had one minors start at 1B. Willson you’re the DH, Burly to 1B.It’s easier just to count the starters who THEY haven’t jerked around yet.
Even if some guys were hitting better, the roster is still not functional, as pointed out above. Its an excersize in cramming whatever bats we do have into the lineup somehow, while at the same time trying to maximize matchups and advantages. Its a three ring circus. Intangibles are out the window. There is no point trying to preserve that. There is no point staying with what we haven’t been winning with. There shouldn’t be any sacred cows. And on top of everything we have to wait out the stupid lame duck season.
I’ve said it before on this Forum. St. Louis might be in store for a handful of less than stellar seasons. We might become what the Reds and Pirates were for quite a few years of this past decade.
r/Esteemed Rat
I don’t see a winner coming together from what is in the organization now plus what we can get in trade for what we have, plus what BDW could reasonably be expected to spend on FAs. Winning is going to wait until the pipeline becomes productive and is popping it out the end. If the new regime is better than the old, its closer to 5 years than 2 or 3. And then, nothing says the new regime will be better. We will be a few years in before we know that.
I get what you are saying, bling. On the other hand, 93 wins should be good enough to win the division. 98 wins was the very best in all of MLB. That is 10-15 wins more than the 2024 Cardinals.
It isn’t like starting from 100+ losses. IMO, that would take 4-5 years.
But how close to the 100 loss team are we going to be on opening day, factoring in the subtractions that have/will occur? Lets say we are down Lynn, Gibson, Goldschmidt and Aredado? Does what is left look like a 100 loss team? What if a couple more guys are gone?
Morning KCB. We could use as good of list with the pitchers. Need some balance.
IMO Having to buy average and below average pitching to fill out the sp is what sunk the ship. Sure there are other problems. But that’s what cooked the goose. We wouldn’t be trading Arenado and shopping Helsley otherwise. We would be shopping for an outfielder. If we had cost controlled pitching, the failures of Walker and Gorman could be absorbed. Tink Hence and Quinn Matthews are 2 guys that are closest to ML. The way I see it, we have to bring back near ready pitching prospects in any trade if we wany to return to relevancy any time soon.
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