Matheny as manager – fired 7/14

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  • #47604
    Brian Walton
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    New odds from bovada.lv.

    Who will be the first MLB Manager fired in the 2018 Season?
    Buck Showalter 3/2
    Bob Melvin 3/1
    Bryan Price 3/1
    Mike Matheny 7/1
    Don Mattingly 9/1
    Gabe Kapler 10/1
    Mike Scioscia 10/1

    #47605
    gscottar
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    Joe Girardi is deciding which job he wants.

    #48687
    gscottar
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    #48695
    mudville
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    I don’t think Bernie’s constant criticism of Matheny is all that level-headed. Who does he want to replace Matheny with, and why? There are certain things that I don’t like about Matheny as a manager, particularly, his apparent belief that players need to be babied instead of led forward, and the way he seems to zone out during a game so that he doesn’t get what’s going on. But Bernie, and a few others are relentless, in their criticism without really proposing something better. I’m going to guess that Matheny said or did something to cause, as they say, ‘bad blood’ between himself and Bernie.

    #48701
    BlackHillsCard
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    Bernie recognizes, like many of us, that Matheny is not competent. So to say there is bad blood is misidentifying the root cause of people’s dislike of Matheny.

    #48710
    CariocaCardinal
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    As soon as the Cards start winning, Bernie will become the biggest Matheny cheerleader.

    #48715
    gscottar
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    Mud, I have two words for you: Joe and Girardi

    #48716
    Brian Walton
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    After reading the Bernie article, here are my takeaways.

    DeWitt has been successful in business.
    The Cardinals have been and continue to be a great investment.
    None of what the article is about has anything to do with Matheny.

    If the business goes south, it will be because the team’s performance went south. Yes, the manager will get fired at that point.

    (scratches his head and closes that browser window…)

    #48922
    gscottar
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    My takeaway was that as long as the club is highly profitable then Matheny is safe even if we aren’t a playoff team.

    I don’t know if that is really true but that seems to be Bernie’s view. I suspect that if our run of non-playoff appearances continues then revenue will dip and there will be a manager change.

    #48930
    mudville
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    I guess hiring Joe Girardi makes sense. He’s only been fired twice so far. I think he got fired for not winning. Another possibility would be to wait for Terry Francona to get fired again. He’s only been fired twice, also, presumably for not winning.

    #48935
    gscottar
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    That seems like an unfair critique of Girardi. His one season of managing the Marlins resulted in him being named NL manager of the year only to then be fired by buffoon owner Jeffrey Loria.

    He then managed the Yankees for ten years compiling a win percentage of .562 and a world series title. He was inexplicably fired last year after taking the Yankees to within one game of the world series.

    We could do worse.

    #48938
    NJ315
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    Girardi is a good manager. Terry Francona is even better. How did they choose Matheny over Francona is still head scratching.

    #48946
    Brian Walton
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    Joe Torre made the Hall of Fame as a manager and he was fired three times before getting the Yankees job.

    Perhaps they feared Francona would be more difficult to manage, like the manager who retired.

    #48957
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    So they wanted a yes man. And look at its panned out. That’s on the front office.

    #48972
    Brian Walton
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    Of course, the choice of a manager is the responsibility of the front office and ownership. As is his contract and how long he serves. That should be of no surprise.

    Only they know their specific decision-making criteria. I just offered a possibility from my personal point of view.

    #48991
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    Brian a lot of people have come to that conclusion.

    #49041
    gscottar
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    Yes Francona is probably better than Girardi but Girardi is available and Francona isn’t.

    As for Matheny, there is no doubt he was hired because the front office knew they could control him better. I think they also assumed he would be more receptive to analytics and playing home grown youngsters than a more established manager.

    Look I’m not here to bash Matheny. I don’t consider him an elite manager but I don’t care if he stays here another 10 years as long as we win. I don’t care if he uses analytics or not and I don’t care if he uses Bowman 120 games per season as long as we win. I’m with Al Davis on this one, just win baby.

    #49052
    mudville
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    Just win Baby.

    One thing I like about Matheny is that he likes the kids. It seems to me that Matheny takes the approach that if the kid is good enough to play in the major leagues, he should be there. LaRussa, on the other hand, hated the kids who were trying to break in. His complaint was always ‘we don’t know what they’re going to do’. LaRussa was totally into a numbers game that he apparently derived himself, and since rookies have no reliable track record, their numbers were considered useless.

    #49268
    mudville
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    No Bowman last night. Matheny finally gave him a night off.

    I think we have to give credit to Matheny for taking Holland out of the game before he gave it away. LaRussa would have left Holland in the game until it was too late. That’s just the way he handled pitchers. Nobody really knows why. Lyons and Norris made Matheny look like a genius.

    #49271
    14NyquisT
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    I’m with gsc… just win the games. * The FO has to give him the tools. Matheny can’t play 5-card draw poker getting only 4 cards. IMO, right now, he’s somewhat short. High expectations but low in the personnel dept. Trim some of the fat and bring on the REDBIRDS.

    #49280
    Brian Walton
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    I dunno. I have mixed feelings about the relief usage Tuesday night. I thought MM would let Hicks pitch the eighth after he looked so good in the seventh. Then again, getting the rookie out on a successful note was not a bad approach, either. The double switch led to Bader’s swinging bunt infield single and he came around to score, so it worked out.

    IMO, the relief situation only looks good because Norris managed to get a five-out save. Cannot count on that from your closer every night, but with off days before and soon after (Thursday), MM could use five relievers to get nine outs.

    So, who is Wednesday’s closer? Norris threw 21 pitches last night.

    #49281
    bicyclemike
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    You wonder if Hicks might get a shot to close today, if a closer is required. Or maybe Gregerson.

    Last night Matheny pulls the right strings. He got a good inning from Hicks, which is the norm right now, then got a couple of big runs in the inning he hit for Hicks.

    Our biggest issue right now is that Holland cannot be counted on in any close game. Hopefully he is not the 2018 “Cecil”, but if that turns out to be the case at least it is only a one-year loss. But I think he will get things squared away and be effective. Course I thought Cecil would come around last year, and he still has not provided any value.

    In some ways I don’t want to see Hicks close, and become so good at it that he becomes the next Rosenthal, and gets burned out by overuse.

    #49284
    gscottar
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    I was surprised Hicks didn’t pitch the 8th also but maybe he is available today if it doesn’t snow. I thought Hicks was supposed to be our “Andrew Miller.”

    I agree the big problem is Holland. I think he has to be regulated to mop up duty until he can prove he can get outs. Maybe he will develop an “injury” so he can go on a long rehab assignment.

    But how about Bud Norris? Not bad for a $3M investment, eh?

    #49286
    thejager
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    I think Gregerson gets the call if needed for Wednesday…other than Norris and Holland (IMO) i think everyone else is good to go

    #49295
    gscottar
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    Since today’s game is cancelled everyone in the pen should be available tomorrow.

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