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– I have been a poster for several years to answer your question.I question the Pham hero-worship adulation .I think it is ridiculous.That`s my opinion.If stating my opinion is so- called mocking and belittling other posters then some people are very thin-skinned and overreacting IMHO.
I don’t see how being a supporter of any one player somehow equates to either worship or adulation. Think that’s more than a bit of a stretch.
OTOH, I think one can find an insult if they go looking for it. We’re all fans, shortened form of fanatic. The term implies a lack of subjective analysis.
The subject of Tommy Pham has been discussed ad-nauseum. He triggers pretty intense emotions on both sides. I come down on the pro-Pham side but understand why others think differently. (If I had the funds I’d create a t-shirt with Tommy’s pic on the front and the phrase “I’m a Phammite” on the back and wear it proudly!). But I also think that if the rest of his career is successful, he STILL would not have done that here.
And how long someone has been a member of this board is totally irrelevant.
Bw52 you can’t play the victim card after you called several posters Phammites and Pham worshipers. Get real.
The reason I asked about BW52 is that I wondered if it stood for Brian Walton. Sometimes posters post under multiple names. Just curious.
BHC-after reading your little sparring with Brian about Genesis Cabrera you should look in the mirror.Get real yourself.
Unlike you, Bw52, I didn’t personally call Brian names. However, you’ve repeatedly called several posters on this forum names and its a re-occurring problem with you. As far as looking at myself in the mirror, the reflecting image looks pretty pleasant considering I didn’t call anyone names. You trying to play the victim here is hilarious. Comedy gold.
Cranny, that’s a sound theory but I doubt Brian would stoop so low and would engage in such antics.
My goodness, some have active imaginations! The theory is that I would break the posted site rules to create a secret second identity to stir the pot, but in doing so, use my own initials in the userid. Now, that wouldn’t be very clever, would it?
Seriously, from our Posting Rules, pinned to the very top of the board:
7. Duplicate user ids. Creation of duplicate ids by the same user is prohibited.
To enforce this, the moderators have access to information which identifies where people are posting from.
Since some of the regulars are clearly not familiar with the rules here, I encourage you to read them. This is not like other places you may post – and that is our intent.
On the bigger picture, the last three years at this time, emotions are raw for obvious reasons. It is not the right time for moderators to get heavy-handed – or for posters to purposely cross the line.
Let’s curb the sharp language and all show some extra tolerance for others’ points of view. Thanks.
thanks for the reminder-tempers are a bit short right now.I know mine was and I got a little fired up.Nothing personal was meant.Bad day and the Cards losing just went over the top.My bad.
Indeed, BW…..tempers with good reason have to be a bit short with the play that our Birds have put on display during crunch time here in the waning days of the ’18 campaign. If you think we’re testy……how do you think Phillie fans are treating each other! They got belted by 8 runs again last night…..this time in front of their own faithful. Check this out….the Faillies have now lost 9 straight and by a combined score of 70-21.
As a quick aside, our esteemed friend Cranny stirring the pot was very very unexpected and yet amusing all the same. Cranny stirring up trouble would be akin to Mother Theresa cutting you off in traffic…..and then flipping you off as she speeds off.
Tempers are short? I guess some folks don’t visit college basketball or football boards. Many of them make political wars seem tame. I think I’ve been called a jerk and an idiot in over two hundred recognized languages, some of which don’t even have a written alphabet. They do get the point across.
We are disappointed. If the members of the team aren’t even more disappointed, we don’t need them around. They didn’t have a good year. But, you have to admire with awe and anticipation what the kids did. Generally, you build a team on defense up the middle. With the exception of Molina, we are young up the middle: DeJong, Wong, and Bader. Not a bad group, and we used five starters much of the season who began the year in AAA. They all did pretty well. If we had had one experienced starter come through this year, we would have been playing in October.
You’re amongst friends, RememberDiz. I’d like to see them clowns call you a naughty name in these waters….Euro, Booyah, stlcard25, BW52 or BlackHills would make verbal minced meat out of them in a flash!…..and RatsBuddy would kick them when they were securely on the mat.
ANother epic failure for the Cards and the Front office. I have no faith that the FO is smart enough to put together a team that can make the post season anymore.
The two most storied teams in baseball — Cardinals and Yankees — rightfully have the highest expectations every year we put teams on the field, and that’s to be WS champions. If we fall short of that it’s not necessarily a total failure of a year, but it does mean that changes are in order. And those changes will be difficult because it will mean shedding some franchise names, and taking some financial losses. The necessity of those changes is visible in the fact that the home games against the Brewers were not all sold out considering the importance of that series. The DeWits better take notice because it appears their fan base may be migrating to other teams. Playing October baseball again will reverse that trend.
The Cards need to start settling into 8 regular everyday position players. There’s been too much turnover. They don’t have to be All Stars. Just good, steady, all around ball players at the plate, in the field, and on the base paths.
They need solid player instead of feast in one or two area’s in their game and famine in others.
Also they need another middle of the order bat. They can’t roll out next season with hitting Jose and Bader in the 3 hole and hitting Gyorko in the 5 hole.
They need to trade a couple of guys. Gyorko and Martinez are most likely to be dealt.
I consider it a successful year because I thought this team would win maybe 85 games. And we got outmaneuvered at the trade deadline by both the Cubs and Brewers. Not sure what could have been done, but adding Schreve and Adams (at the MLB level) certainly wasn’t enough. However I am excited for next season as we got younger. Fingers crossed that Reyes can finally stay healthy. And the Cards need to bite the bullet, and cut Cecil. Enough is enough, as his roster spot is worth more than his 2 years salary.
The team was in it for post until now so I think that meets Mo’s definition of competitive. I wish the bar was higher but that’s where we are. I expect this winter to be much last last with another competitive team next year.
Anyone know what the smart people think about Reyes next season? And maybe the Yadi heir thing will clarify.
Cardsredsox:
The fans are not migrating from the ticket office. They’ll sell over three million next year. Why should they do anything in the off-season? They were in it until the next to last day this year. There is no reason for them to spend any money or trade any prospects. But, we’ll see.
Couple of things. First, attendance. (I know, it’s really tickets sold. But that’s all we got. And it’s what counts most anyway, other than for the visuals.)
Despite some recent hand-wringing, attendance remains as usual a huge organizational strength for St. Louis. The Cards ranked third in all MLB this year in average attendance, behind only LA and the Yanks, at over 42,000 per game. Frisco was a distant 4th at fewer than 39K. Oh, and if you meet a Giants fan be sure to call their team “Frisco.”
Better than that, the Birds were first, yeah first in the majors in percentage of their seats that got bought, at 95.6%. The Red Sox were barely #2 with 95.3 and the baby bears got the bronze medal with 92.4. Twenty-six teams were under 90% and 24 under 85%.
Attendance link: https://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance/_/sort/homePct
And second, I’m with you 100% cranny that the Cardinals should settle on a regular starting eight. Good, steady all around players. That’s how you described them, and I agree wholeheartedly. It’s about getting good players, whatever shape they take. Above average players for their positions. Guys better than 2-WAR, however they get there.
I don’t care if they all hit righty, or lefty. I don’t care of they never steal a base, or if some of them commit the most errors in the league at their position. I don’t care if nobody is a classic leadoff type, or an archetypical cleanup hitter. As long as they are all average or better among their peers, all 2+ WAR guys (and preferably more of course) once the batting, defense, and baserunning are all accounted for. For me that’s all that matters. Overall value, not role, not handedness, not steals or strikeouts or homers or error totals. Just the overall value.
So here’s my proposed Everyday Eight, and their career WAR averages per 600 plate appearances. For the WAR totals below I took the average of the only 3 publicly available WAR yardsticks: Fangraphs, Baseball-Reference, and B-Prospectus. Two reasonable exceptions to this methodology, however. For Jedd Gyorko I used only his trio of Cardinal seasons, as that clearly represents a stable and sustained and markedly different level of ability than he showed in San Diego. And also, for Yadi Molina I only used the Prospectus WAR values, since for some unknowable reason they’re the sole website that includes both pitch framing and pitch blocking data, even though such numbers have been around for a decade or so.
Ozuna 3.2 WAR/600 PA’s
Bader 5.2
O’Neill 5.9
Gyorko 3.6
DeJong 4.2
Wong 2.7
Carp 3.9
Yadi 4.5These reflect only the past, of course. I’m not making any predictions here. But I think these numbers illustrate why I believe that bullpen help and only bullpen help is a real team need this offseason.
(You all probably knew this already, but the Redbird starting pitching has been elite this year, all year. They’re 4th in MLB, and 2nd in the Senior Circuit in ERA. The pen on the other hand stunk. Next to last in the N.L. in Win Probability Added, at 5-6 wins worse than the average team, and 14(!) worse than the Cubs. In other words, with a merely average relief corps this year, the Cards would be right there with the Brewers and baby bears.)
I’m not completely stubborn, though. If they can swing a low-risk trade for someone like Kyle Seager in hopes of a big bounceback, then OK fine. With three years left on his contract, Seager wouldn’t be around long enough to block either Elehuris Montero or Nolan Gorman for more than a year, if either quickly self-actualizes. With Seager added, Jedd G. could at least temporarily slide over into a superutility role alongside Munoz for the next two years. And if Seager didn’t reclaim his past greatness, then Gyorko could simply return to being the hot corner regular for 130-140 games.
If a $100 ticket is heavily discounted and sold for $10, is that a good thing? How about the fact that more and more sold tickets are resulting in empty seats – therefore fewer buyers for over-priced food and drink?
On the other side of the ledger is the new TV contract and increased revenues from MLB Advanced Media. Not included on the MLB books is another potentially huge, but not well-understood revenue source – Ballpark Village.
All things considered, my take is this. OK, your own numbers indicate attendance is still strong. Your other sources of revenue are flowing well. Then why aren’t you among the top tier of teams in player payroll spending?
Will the fans accept yet another winter of nibbling around the edges of the strike zone instead of going after the opposition? IMO, there is a talent gap between the Cards and their top opposition that cannot be closed by the young players alone.
I used “rebuilding on the fly” as a term (it’s been used a number of times by sportswriters referring to the Cards). They haven’t gone through big time down years where they trade players away coming up on big contracts (or highly paid veterans), go through very bad seasons, get a few #1-#5 in the first round draft picks, etc.
The Cards had a record 5 straight playoff seasons (1 under Tony and 4 under Matheny), then were in the hunt for the playoffs until the last few days of the season in 2016-2018. They stayed competitive
as they kept Carp, Molina, Wainwright, C. Martinez, etc. while trying to feed in a new core of Grichuk, Piscotty, Diaz, Wong, Adams, etc. The young players didn’t kick in as expected and they fell short of the playoffs.
In 2018, they fed in DeJong as a full time player, brought up Bader, O’Neill, Munoz, and a bunch of rookie pitchers. The stayed competitive on the fly.I like Robert Reed’s list, as long as there’s no regression by young players like Bader, DeJong, and O’Neill – like there was with Diaz, Adams, and Piscotty for example (understand the circumstances on Piscotty).
But I would really like to see them get a veteran or two like they did with Berkman and Beltran to broaden the veteran leadership.
It’s badly needed.
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