- This topic has 171 replies, 31 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 9 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
I thought this exchange in Goold’s chat yesterday was interesting in how it contrasts the styles of the Cards and Cubs front offices the last week in dealing with disappointed fan bases. One front office was calm and measured while the other was more fire and brimstone. Goold is correct that actions speak louder than words but would our fan base like a little red meat tossed our way once in awhile just to confirm that our team’s management is engaged and not too aloof?
DG,
I always enjoy the hard work you put into your excellent writing for my favorite baseball team. My question is concerning the two very different sentiments coming from the cardinals and the cubs. In your interview with DeWitt there did not seem to be a strong sense of urgency to improve the team with major moves despite missing the playoffs three straight years, whereas theo’s comments showed a strong urgency to win the division next year. I suppose on one hand this is all talk and the proof will be in the pudding but on the other hand I would think Dewitt would be willing to pay Harper whatever he wants if it meant finally landing that superstar they’ve been coveting and (likely?) (hopefully?) making the playoffs again. Thanks
Share
Jack
17 hours ago
I agree completely that there was a contrast. The Cubs came out a lot like maybe the Cardinals of 2007 or Cardinals of 2010 did — urgency, preaching change. They sounded a lot like what Cardinals fans wanted the Cardinals to sound like. I get that. I think that’s fair. You are exactly right though: it’s talk until it’s action. In the end, the comments from both teams this past week have the same impact on their rosters, the same impact on next year’s standings, and the same impact on free agents. That is, none. One sent a message to his manager and his players. The other side opted not to say much at all.I don’t think that’s a reflection of a difference in these team’s urgency to win or frustration with the past season. I think it reflects the different personalities of their leadership.
Share
Derrick GooldAs for Goold, let’s look at the most recent opportunity to take real action as evidence. Hamels, Chavez, Murphy vis-a-vis Adams and Shreve: urgency to win or personality? Come on, if it’s been quacking like a duck for a long time, it’s a duck.
There are some very interesting questions, and Goold gives some very good answers. Worth a read.
What I was absolutely shocked about was that our manager’s name did not appear once. It seems as though the organization wants no part of him being connected to the Cards nose dive. Just another questionable signing that may be problematic.
Anyway, there was a Q&A regarding Perez. Goold was fairly blunt in his answer citing that coaches knew that he was a raw talent “more raw than expected”. Then stating that Perez “missed valuable developmental time” due to a number of reasons. Also Perez “needs some improvement with his preparation” and “has to take responsibility”.
These are words that you don’t want to hear about a #1 (’16) draft pick. Delvin is carrying a lot of baggage that has accumulated in his first 3 pro seasons. The kid has talent but you have to wonder what the problem is here. Here’s hoping that somehow he has an epiphany and becomes the ball player that many know he can be.
This summer, Perez told me that he and Oquendo still speak every day and Jose is like a father to him. If the issue is a lack of focus and Oquendo hasn’t gotten through after several years of closely working with him, who will? (P.S. My guess is that the other whispers would diminish substantially if Perez finally started to hit consistently. This is the most crucial problem, IMO.)
Labeling Shildt as “a questionable signing” has to be a minority opinion, but you are certainly entitled to it. Though there was a justifiable debate when the extension came early, when all was said and done, the odds were extremely high that he would still have been signed after the season, anyway. Why not give the man a winter of preparation and a chance to run his own spring camp before being so sour about his success chances?
Ben Frederickson gave his take on how each front office delivered the end of year message.
I can only speak for myself, but I care. And I would see it as a slap in the face to the fans to not address us (via the media) and talk about what went wrong and what their plans are to improve.
by Jack 1:00 PM yesterday
PermalinkI personally like the end-of-season presser. But I have selfish reasons for that.
I also think it’s advantageous for the team, when used properly.
Check out Chicago recent one.
Theo told fans exactly what they wanted to hear, that this year’s team lacked urgency.
It was a direct message at Joe Maddon, and should not be interpreted differently.
Theo said what Cardinals fans want to hear, which should scare Cardinals fans a bit.
The lack of an end-of-season press conference suggests, to me, the lack of a message.
Perhaps it’ still being formed.
Perhaps there is not one.
by BenFred 1:04 PM yesterdaySo Cub’s fans couldn’t figure out that out for themselves? What else was Theo going to say….we are happy with how the season ended? I’m not trying to defend Maddon, I think he is a clown. I think these type of press conferences don’t really accomplish much. MO and Girsch will say they want to do better and that last 3 seasons were unacceptable. All of that is pretty obvious. The only press conference I’m interested in is introducing new players that will improve the team…not a lot of obvious statements in October.
by Jana 1:59 PM yesterday
PermalinkNoted.
Though I don’t think many in Chicago expected Theo to put the manager on the hot seat in front of their microphones.
I guess I saw nuance in those statements that you did not. That’s OK. Maybe I read too much into it.
If you have heard someone associate with the Cardinals say that missing the postseason is unacceptable, let me know.
Disappointing, not the goal, frustrating, etc. Sure.
But unacceptable means it can’t and won’t happen again. I haven’t heard that kind of promise or goal.
Not that the Cardinals should offer it.
But the frustration some Cardinals fans are pointing to, in my opinion accurately, stems from the fact that the Cubs sound more motivated by being bounced early from the postseason than the Cardinals did about missing for a third time in a row.
The moves matter more than the words. That we can definitely agree on!Perez was taking steroids. His scouting reports were based on a person taking steroids. He should not have been drafted as a number one. Maybe take a chance on a player like that later in the draft. (I think everyone should do a regimen of steroids once in their life so they know what it does to you, especially front office personnel.)
Cards brass is not going to say ‘missing the postseason is unacceptable’. They already made a move and statement by firing Matheny. Shildt was not responsible for them missing the playoffs. He was the one who almost got them there.
by Evil Calvin 2:10 PM yesterday
PermalinkI think you have touched on a good point here.
The Cardinals could just be adopting an actions-speak-louder-than-words philosophy.
Cubs put their manager on the hot seat.
Cardinals already fired theirs.
But here’s one potential problem fans have noticed, and I see why: When the Cardinals made the right call in ending the Matheny era, the decision makers said they had a postseason team. They did not.
Again, the Cardinals have done some interviews, so to say they have been silent is not accurate.
But they (at least for now) have dodged the televised and broadcasting postseason press conference jousting session.
It did not go unnoticed.
by BenFred 2:12 PM yesterdayIMO… you can’t give Shildt accolades when he was hired and the team went well, without taking into account that the team folded at the end of the season.
My issue is with those who do not acknowledge the wide gulf between giving accolades and labeling it a mistake hire. It too early for either extreme.
I give Shildt the benefit of the doubt because the immediate improvement of the team seemed to be due to changes he made, even if they were subtle, whereas the down slide in September seemed to be due to having so many rookies who has never played in September before. They literally ran out of gas and there isn’t much a manger can do about that.
The Cards are holding a media briefing, after all…
MEDIA NOTE: The Cardinals Baseball Operations staff plans to hold a media briefing on team activities next Tuesday, Oct. 16 at 11 a.m. CDT at Busch Stadium.
One thing I like about Schildt is his quick hook. Matheny left guys in too long. Schildt doesn’t wait around for a disaster.
The team played at a 96-97 win pace under Shildt. Yes, that’s a “playoff team,” or at the very least a contender. They ran out of gas in the end, but they’ll be back.
Lots of they ran out of gas, another way could be they just came back down to earth after playing over their heads for awhile…
Onyxgem: Perfect point. The prospects are just that and it doesn’t take long for the league to catch up with them. Next year we’ll see just how many of them are any good.
Interesting article and supporting data from MLB pointing out that teams reaching the wild card are advancing to the LCS at a decreasing rate, including 0-for-8 the last two years.
Just maybe the Cards have to aim higher – both in the standings and their 90-win target.
https://www.mlb.com/news/wild-card-game-is-rewarding-division-champs/c-297860102
Just maybe the Cards have to aim higher – both in the standings and their 90-win target.
LOL – The Japanese didn’t start building superior cars by designing them to be a little better than American Cars. They aimed for them to never fail.
The Cardinals front office aims to get into a one game playoff.
The Cardinals front office aims to get into a one game playoff.
They say they do . . . but not enough evidence to confirm even this.
Labeling Shildt as “a questionable signing” has to be a minority opinion, but you are certainly entitled to it. Though there was a justifiable debate when the extension came early, when all was said and done, the odds were extremely high that he would still have been signed after the season, anyway. Why not give the man a winter of preparation and a chance to run his own spring camp before being so sour about his success chances?
I don’t like giving interim manager’s the full time job. That’s not an interview. It’s giving someone you already had in mind a job. I would have preferred Shildt put his resume up against Girardi and let the chips fall where they may.
I also don’t believe a manager has much, if any, effect on the outcome of a season. All losses are the manager’s fault and all wins are due to the players. Yada yada.
Onyxgem
Participant
Lots of they ran out of gas, another way could be they just came back down to earth after playing over their heads for awhile…The “ran out of gas” theory makes sense to me because we were relying on so many players who had never played deep into September before. They have now been through it and that will be a very valuable experience for them.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.