Has 2018 already been a successful year?

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  • #70489
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Well folks, the final week of the regular season is upon us. In early July, and probably even for a month after, not many of us would have predicted that we would be playing meaningful baseball in the last week of the regular season. The division title is even, surprisingly, somewhat within reach.

    But…here we are. The possible outcomes still left range be NL Central champs with home field advantage in the playoffs to sitting at home a week from now.

    It’s been a season of transition, go be sure…from the top of the on the field staff going buh-bye on July 14th to the rotation being a mix of rookies and guys who no one would have expected to be so good, all the new faces in the lineup (Hello, Mr Bader, Muñoz, and company) saying goodbye to Tommy Pham and likely Waino after the season, and multiple memorable moments (all the walkoffs!).

    So for you, is this season considered a success no matter what happens the next week and beyond or do you need to see more?

    #70493
    Avatargscottar
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    There have been some positive developments the second half of the season to give us hope for the future but we need to make the post season to call it a successful year IMO.

    #70495
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    IMO, “success” is a binary word. Playoffs = success for me. FWIW, it is also how the owner defines a successful season.

    Had you used the word “improvement” instead, I would agree that has already occurred.

    (At the extreme end of the spectrum is nate, who believes that only the World Series winner has a successful season.)

    #70498
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Well, “improvement” is something more quantifiable. We can say that the team won more games than last year and will likely win more than 2016 even so that would be an easy call.

    But if we didn’t use subjective terms like “success” or “failure,” what would be the point of us arguing on internet forums? ??

    Fwiw, I think this has been a successful year regardless of how the last week plays out. The stage is set for the team to make a nice jump into the upper echelon of teams in the next year or two with shrewd resource management. I didn’t see that as a possibility even 4 months ago so that is a very nice place to be, as a fan.

    #70499
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    We will have to agree to disagree, as I do not accept weakening the term ‘success’, muddying the picture by equating it to ‘improvement’. The two are very different.

    If one truly believes that another year of third place in a five-team division and missing the playoffs equates to ‘success’, your bar is set too low, IMO.

    #70500
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    Magic eight-ball says “ask again later”… like in one week.

    #70501
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    We will have to agree to disagree, as I do not accept weakening the term ‘success’, muddying the picture by equating it to ‘improvement’. The two are very different.

    If one truly believes that another year of third place in a five-team division and missing the playoffs equates to ‘success’, your bar is set too low, IMO.

    I don’t equate success with improvement, necessarily. But I do not think the two are mutually exclusive.

    Would missing the playoffs be a knock against the overall view of the season? Sure. But I would also note that all of the things that went wrong this year could and should have made this a below .500 squad. Yet they are still likely to win at least 88 and possibly 90+ games with a backup rotation, more key injuries than just about any other contending team, and inexplicable declines from veterans expected to be reliable parts of a contending club (like Fowler, Holland, etc).

    #70502
    Avatarbccran
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    I guess the answer to this is relative for some of us who were fans through the 50s, 70s, and 90s.
    I always considered a winning year to be a successful year (especially if there are a lot of young players on the team). It provides a lot of recreational entertainment over a 6 month season. Making the playoffs is the chocolate sauce on the sundae. Whipped cream is making it to the WS. And the cherry on top is a World Championship. JMHO.

    #70512
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Yes, many of the teams of the 50’s, 70’s and 90’s were mediocre. But being better than that by providing “entertainment” is not normally equated with “success”, either.

    This whole discussion gets down to wordsmithing. I imagine everyone agrees the team is improved from last year and even from mid-season this year, when many frustrated fans had stopped watching.

    But since we are wordsmithing, here is the definition of the word success.

    “the accomplishment of an aim or purpose.”

    Bill DeWitt has stated on many occasions before and during the season that his objective is for the team to make the playoffs, and he believes they have the talent to do it. Instead, if the team stays home in October, why try to wash it away? By the definition of the man on top, they would have fallen short.

    Can they still be enthused by the progress made toward the future? Sure, they can. So will every single one of the 20 teams that miss the playoffs find constructive things to build on for next year.

    #70514
    Avatar858booyah
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    Part of the failures of some of those teams before Dewitt took over was due to the lack of Financial support by the ownership.

    I’m going to hold off on it being successful. 2016 the Cardinals finished 1 game out of the WC and it didn’t feel like it was a successful season by any stretch.

    Getting back to the postseason will make it successful for sure and yes some positive steps have been made but I’m not letting Shildt or Mo off the hook if they fall short for some reason. One could now argue if we indeed miss the postseason the move that we all wanted made should’ve been done sooner and maybe even the lifting of the interim tag could be called premature.

    #70520
    AvatarCardinals27
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    I think it has been a successful year whether we make the playoffs or not. I believe we are on the right road, and have many prospects. It just comes down to how good these prospects turn out. If Reyes can come back from injury that would be huge, otherwise we may to test the trade waters for an ace. Prospects like Gorman, Hudson, Helsley, Nunez could have a very high ceiling. The toughest thing for the future is continued player development and managing the roster crunch we have.

    #70521
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    I draw the line at making the post season, that’s successful for me.

    I’ve watched 10 Cardinal teams play in the w.s.,and watched 5 of them win the w.s.

    Get there and get hot, is what i hope for, but I don’t need a trophy to feel they were successful.

    #70559
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Apparently, fan buy-in is lagging. The upper left photo is particularly telling.

    #70560
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    At the extreme end of the spectrum is nate, who believes that only the World Series winner has a successful season.

    WS runner up is first in a long line of losers!! And is a WS championship really a success if it sets you up for failure down the road? Haha.

    For me success has to be making the playoffs, at a minimum. I know at the start of the season, I wasn’t saying I hope we do better than some expect and finish not too far behind the second wildcard team.

    #70601
    MrperkinsMrperkins
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    Brian, you may recall after bitching all year in 2011 Nate said winning the World series was the worst thing they could have done.

    #70636
    Avatarbccran
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    I guess we all have our own definition of success. If we spend a lot of money and have a bunch of
    high priced veterans who underperform and we miss the playoffs, I don’t see much success in that.
    But if we’re rebuilding on the fly, have some really good young players getting some valuable major league experience that will bode well for the future, and webarely miss the playoffs? I can find success in that.

    #70639
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Mr. Perkins, if my memory is accurate (which it may or may not be), I thought Charlie Johnson said that.

    Nate could verify that, but he hasn’t been around since the team started winning. One has to hope he doesn’t return this week. 😉

    #70640
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Rebuilding on the fly? I’ve not heard the Cardinals call it that.

    #70644
    AvatarGACard
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    I think there are several ways to look at it. If we miss the playoffs and come out strong with a big year next year and it propels us into a successful run. I will always remember this season in a positive light. If we miss the playoffs and we come out flat again next year I will not have fond memories in the long term. If we somehow make the playoffs and make a run, I can’t help but have positive memories about this season

    #70646
    AvatarGACard
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    And I leave this year with huge questions about the bullpen again. Which seemed solidified in August. Yet we don’t see Daniel poncedeleon and see the same people struggle every game. Just don’t appear to have many pen pieces to work with heading into next year and this front office has shown over and over they aren’t capable of building a pen

    #70648
    Avatarmspaid
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    Brian:

    Thanks again for deciding what I think. I do believe that wining the WS is the measure of success. I don’t see the 2017 Dodgers, the 2016 Indians the 2015 Mets, etc. remembering those years with too much fondness. I don’t remember a parade for the Cardinals in 2004 or 2013 so clearly the FO thought it was less than a successful season. I guess a team can be happy if they’re above five hundred. Not me. There is one successful team each year and yes 29 failures. Sorry but falling short is failing. They did win more games than last year if that is a kind of big improvement for some. People who are easy to please are nice to have around because they don’t expect much and failure doesn’t bother them. I guess I have higher expectations.

    #70655
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    nate, I did not decide anything. You confirmed that I represented your opinion accurately – one successful team each year.

    #70660
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    So for the “making the playoffs is the only way to measure success” crowd…if the Cards tie the Rockies and lose the play in game, is that successful enough? How about if they then lose to the Brewers in the official Wild Card game? Or do they need to make the Division Series?

    #70664
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    The tie breaker game is not yet the post-season. It is considered Game 163 of the regular season and determines which team enters the playoffs. The wild card game opens the post-season.

    Does finishing in a tie followed by a loss in the final regular season game to be eliminated scream success?

    #70668
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    The Cards play Chicago on Sept 30th. The play in game would be Oct 1. The Wild Card game would be Oct 2.

    It just seems sort of nebulous to say that if they lose on day 1 or 2 and the season ends, it’s a failure. But if they lose day 3 (even though they could lose day 1 as well), it’s a success. I would think they’d need to at least make the Division Series.

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