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You mean, Tommy Pham is hitting .346 for Tampa Bay heading into today’s game with the Yankees, who are led by Luke Voit and his 1.005 OPS.
And that was before Voit went 3-3 today with another homer, his 12th for the Yanks in 37 games. It really is almost impossible to overestimate how many Cardinal hitters were being held down by John Mabry, and how badly.
Normally I’d agree with you Brian, but not on these trades. Its pretty evident the Cards got hosed in trading Pham. Justin Williams isn’t even a top 15 prospect. Cabrera and Ramirez are bullpen arms. Ramirez finished the season at Springfield with an ERA over 5. Cabrera pitched poorly for Springfield as well before getting promoted to Memphis where in very limited action pitched well.
Cabrera is 21 years old and has already reached Triple-A, a level where the average pitcher is over 26. What do you know about him to have already pegged him as a reliever? Difference-maker left-handers have particular value, if he can become that.
What about forcing a game 163? I know…I know! They don’t appear to have it in them to win 1 game the rest of the season let alone 2.
I do think the door is open ever so slightly for that. Giants do have MAdBum and Pudge’s kid going the first 2 games against Ryu and Kershaw. Weirder things have happened! Maybe this is too weird.
Cabrera is 21 years old and has already reached Triple-A, a level where the average pitcher is over 26. What do you know about him to have already pegged him as a reliever? Difference-maker left-handers have particular value, if he can become that.
Every scouting report I’ve read about him pegs him as a bullpen arm. If you know something else, please enlighten us.
Since the trade, Derek Shore has written two in-depth articles about Cabrera, including talking with him directly as well as getting insight from his coaches both in the Rays and Cardinals organizations.
Cabrera has four pitches and continues to work on what seems to be the key as a starter, his change-up. Eric Longenhagen of Fangraphs believes that change-up can become an “impact” pitch.
I’ve been told the Cards believe Cabrera will be the key player in the Pham trade.
https://thecardinalnation.com/?s=genesis+cabrera
If you don’t subscribe, you won’t be able to read what we have written. Rather than take our word for it, read this spring 2018 article from DRaysBay, my go-to source for Rays prospect info. (I like to check team-specific sites as the good ones go deeper on their organization’s prospects.)
One key quote:
“What you hear in Cabrera’s case are questions about his remaining a starter due to lack of a downward plane. I have so many issues with such hogwash…”
https://www.draysbay.com/2018/3/22/17143896/tampa-bay-rays-prospects-genesis-cabrera-no-17-top-50
You may now consider yourself enlightened. 😉
You may now consider yourself enlightened.
We shall see. Only time will tell. Numerous other scouting reports indicate him being a bullpen arm for several reasons. On the surface it appears to be a bad trade in my opinion. But my opinion isn’t yours so I must be wrong.
And to answer your question, I have subscribed to the site in the past. There’s a reason why I stopped.
Look, I took the time to provide detailed information because you asked for it. In return, you twice offered a generic “reliever” assessment with nothing to back it up. I asked in case you had some particular insight, which it appears you do not. Have you ever seen Cabrera pitch?
It does not matter if you agree with me, but I follow prospects for a living, so I take it seriously. But they are just informed opinions, none of which are right or wrong. In this particular case, I am not ready to make a career role pronouncement on a 21-year old who has always been one of the youngest players in his leagues after just one month of play in his new organization.
I get you like playing the angry guy, in this case, lambasting the front office for the Pham trade based on his two months (of which he has been healthy for 35 games) and whatever you are reading about Cabrera. Your opinion was already set that the Cards were “screwed” on the trade, so I should not have bothered to engage you.
Back to the subject of this thread – IMO, no matter how one feels about it, pro or con, the Pham trade is not a significant factor on whether or not 2018 was a success for the Cardinals.
Pham was traded because of the same reason the Rays paid a low price for him…the SI article and resulting idea that he’s a bad clubhouse guy. I like Cabrera and think he’s a good get, but Pham’s upside could make the return look paltry even if Cabrera becomes a #3 starter like he’s capable of being.
That said, the trade season wasn’t a bad one for the Cards, even if the guys traded have performed well.
Since you wanted links, Brian, here you go:
Both of the above articles are from 2017 but are highly detailed.
This fangraphs article states he’s probably going to be a very good bullpen lefty: https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/top-34-prospects-tampa-bay-rays/
So, there you go. I’m not just blowing smoke and have provided valuable insight through posting these links. Now you’re enlightened.
It was already established that some scouts and observers see Cabrera as a future reliever, but others do not. The reality there is not a consensus suggests that drawing a firm decision at this point about his future role, let alone a conclusion on the entire trade, is not prudent.
So you were just grandstanding and posturing with your original reply to me when I said he’s a bullpen arm. True to form.
pham trade was not a good one at all we gave up a good to very good player for next to nothing at all
That is a trade that will take a few years to know for sure who won. The red flag in the deal is the non-baseball reasoning for trading Pham. That can often result in a deal where more value is given up than received.
One deal that looks to be potentially good for both sides was Marco Gonzales for Tyler O’Neill. Marco put up a 3.6 WAR (Fangraphs) for the Mariners this year, about 3 times what O’Neill has done for us so right now the M’s have the better of it. But if O’Neill plays on a regular basis next year, which he should if the club is thinking straight, then he could be impressive. If I am running the show, I start him in right field these last three to get a glimpse into the future.
Pham trade was addition by subtraction.Cards rid themselves of a malcontent lousy defensive OF who had been playing poorly and was 30 years old with a lengthy injury/eye issue history.Good riddance to that malcontent .Cards got a MLB Cards top 30 prospect Justin Williams,Another Cards top 30 prospect in LHP Genesis Cabrera and a service RP Roel Ramirez.Coincidence or not……Pham gets his sorry ass traded and the Cards go on a winning streak.How about that.So I say BS to the Phammites whining about Pham being traded for next to nothing.
Bw52
…Pham gets his sorry ass traded and the Cards go on a winning streak.How about that.So I say BS to the Phammites whining about Pham being traded for next to nothing.
Brian, I thought continually insulting or maligning your fellow posters was against the rules.
Bw52, I am sure that the trade of 1 player made a 54-52 team go 33-20 the rest of the way. I am sure the change of a manager had nothing to do with the team going 47-46 prior to his firing and 40-26 after. It was all that 1 player.
I would much rather have an OF of Ozuna-Bader-Pham with O’Neill backing up right now than be stuck with Martinez. For that matter, maybe O’Neill-Bader-Pham would be preferable.
Addition by subtraction.Good riddance to bad rubbish.Speaking a opinion about a certain player.As for his worshippers …hey Tampa can always use more fans.
Bw52, BTW, the Cardinals’ record since Fowler last playing is 31-18. Maybe that is the reason for the improvement.
BW52 still is allowed to mock and belittle
Other posters here and continues to get away with it when is 100 percent against the rules.
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