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Flaherty can pitch like an “ace”.
Mikolas can pitch like an “ace”.
Monty can pitch like an “ace”.
Even Waino can pitch like an “ace”. He just proved that.How do you define an “ace”, anyway?
But that is the difference between an ace and s non ace. Many pitchers can pitch like an ace but if you dont do it concistently you are not an ace.
Mikolas produced those numbers in 2018. It is the only year in his career that he pitched that well for the whole season. He was 29 then and will be 34 next year. Do you want to build this team around him as the ace?
I do not consider him an ace.
Exactly, Forsch31. We don’t have an ACE. Sure, anybody can pitch like one now and them. I really hope Flaherty would become one, but his record health wise makes me find him worrisome.
We have a bunch a couple 2/3 and a bunch of 3/4/5 starters. Montgomery has always gotten a lot of praise, maybe getting him out of NY will help him become one. Waino was one, two 2nds and two 3rds in the Cy Young balloting over a 6 year period is definitely an ACE. I would love to have another. Still a 2/3 even closing in on 41 years old.
How do you define an ACE? A pitcher who you count on to end a bad streak 9-10 times. We don’t have that.
And as to having such a surplus, trade a couple for a catcher like Murphy. Good defense, good hitter, doesn’t cost a lot of $$$
bling, that is why I put the odds at less than 5%.
Card4Ever, I agree that Waino WAS an ace. Unfortunately, he isn’t anymore but he is VERY good. I never count out his guile and determination.
Bccran you don’t make sense. Posting in a thread you don’t even like. But yea I do have time to waste. Flaherty is probably done. Maybe not but the evidence points to yes. Yes we could fill in with guys who aren’t great just good. Quintana may be worth it like I said but we could aim higher. Will Mo do it probably not but it’s nice to talk about. I’m sure other threads are talking about stuff you may find more interesting.
Top shelf FAs are a bidding war. When is the last time Mo won a top shelf bidding war?
True, Mo is better at trades. There will be potential #1 starters available. Price in prospects might be high, but we need a dominant starter.
Verlander, deGrom, Scherzer, no Cardinal can pitch like that. Flaherty is the only one who has the ability. Needs to stay healthy
Personally from the starts I’ve seen, I don’t think flaherty can pitch like those guys consistently anyway even if healthy which is always a big if. Face it, we have had a bunch of pitchers at one time or another who had awesome stuff but could not stay on the field.
Reyes, Hicks, Flaherty all have the ability to be aces but none can stay healthy. Rayes and Hicks have not proven they can throw enough consistent strikes to get to that plateau.
bccran…ERA is the first thing I take a look at with any pitcher and my benchmark of an ace or a stopper has always been based on a guy who works approx. 200 IP and keeps it under 3.00. However there’s been quite a few CYA winners over the last 25 years who took home the award with an ERA well above 3.25 and as “high” as 3.50. The names include Clemens, Halladay, Sabathia, Colon, etc…So who really knows what an “ace” is? Plus, times change. At one time a so-called ace worked 300 IP, 15 to 20 CG, with 7 or 8 shutouts. Those days are gone. I’m not certain anyone will ever be the winning pitcher of record for 300 games again. I do know that I saw an ace work a CG 1-0 shutout in Phil. in the 5th game of the ’11 NLDS. His ERA for the regular season that year was 3.45 and I’d say he was an ace…
A #1, at minimum, is one of the 30 best starters in the league. But really, there are more like 10-12 true aces…those guys who you’d tab to start a playoff series, or a do or die game. The Cards haven’t had one in a while; really since Waino tore his Achilles in 2015. Flaherty had spurts. Cmart was very close for a couple years. Mikolas had a great 2018, and Waino has been very good.
By WAR in 2022, the Cards have Quintana at #24, Mikolas at #27, Waino at #34 and Montgomery at #38 among qualified guys. By ERA, they have Waino at #26, Quintana at #28, Montgomery at #29 and Mikolas at #32. By FIP (which takes out the effects of defense), Quintana is 14th and Waino, Mikolas and Montgomery are back to back to back at #33-35.
Interestingly, Alcantara is 2nd in WAR and Gallen is 26th. My favorite, Aaron Nola, is 4th.
So what’s that mean? I believe the Cards have some good starting pitching this year. Two of their top 4 are not guaranteed to be back, and another is in his mid 30s. I’d argue, like others, that they have four #2-3s this year but no true ace.
On the Cardinals the only pitcher that has shown this year to possibly you be an ace that has enough cardinal games to be qualify would be mikolas. And I would still only consider him a number 2 but that’s just me. Waino has just been a little off this year. Is it age creeping up on him I don’t know but he’s still had some great moments and I consider him our staff leader but not an ace.
The ERAs I posted were the ERAs of the starters of the 2021 World Champion Braves. Who’s the “ace” in that group?
In most every case, good pitching gets you to October. Dominant pitching wins there. And sorting them out by ERA in the regular season hardly tells the whole story.
Just look at our last serious playoff run and tell me that the Nationals NLCS bludgeoning had nothing to do with their trio of aces. Having three guys who were top 11 in the Cy Young voting sure helped to run out in games 2-3-4.
Sure you neeed to have good pitching. But you need to have good defense and some guys who can scratch out runs. It’s the whole enchilada and it doesn’t necessarily require an “ace”. Look at the Milwaukee series just completed. We should have swept it and we didn’t have an “ace”.
Let’s pick another one just for the heck of it. How about the 2015 World Champion Royals. Here were the season long ERAs of their starters –
3.55
4.08
5.95
4.08
3.06
4.76Where’s the “ace”? They won the Series 4 games to 1.
bc, do you think the 2022 Cardinals could beat the current Dodgers team 6 times out of 10 games? If so, why? If not, where are we lacking?
The Cardinals definitely need an ace if they are serious about taking on the Dodgers and Mets for NL supremacy. We don’t have one.
Of the free agency pitchers the one I would go after is Verlander. Why? Well he is still very dominant. He will probably win another Cy Young this year. But he will also be 40 next year so I think you might be able to get him on a 2 year/$50M deal. I would definitely do that.
Of course there could be trades available as well.
And yes I am well aware of how the Cardinals do business. I have been closely studying them for several decades. They build from within and rarely win bidding wars, unless it is bidding wars we should lose like Fowler and Matz.
But I generally agree with how the Cardinals build a team which is why I am glad we didn’t dismantle the system for Soto, but occasionally they do need to get out of their comfort zone and going in on a big name player on a short term but high AAV may be the way to do it. In my opinion the length of the contract often does more harm than the AAV.
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