Free agent Steven Matz

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  • #177346
    stlcard25
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    The Mets are a total mess. I still don’t know how they were as bad as they were the last few years with the talent on that club. Some franchises are simply run so poorly that they drag everyone else down with them as they flail.

    #177348
    ZTR
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    It’s a move that addresses the biggest need.

    The injury history for all of the projected starting 5 outside of Wainwright is worrisome and he’s older than dirt so there is that.

    The projected reinforcements got a lot of experience last season so when a couple of the starters break down that should help.

    Liberatore is close to ready as well.

    Surely 2022 will be kinder to Cardinal pitching on the injury front than 2021? Almost has to be….

    #177349
    LACardFan
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    Do I think the Cardinals will sign a premium arm? No

    Should they? Yes

    If they do get lucky and sign someone better, they should be able to trade Mikolas, given so many teams are looking for pitching.

    Our rotation has three guys that missed substantial portions of last year, one guy who averages about 150 innings per year, and our 41 year old “ace.”

    #177350
    ZTR
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    Flaherty and Hudson should be 1 and 2 I would think?

    I’d like to see them ‘baby’ Wainwright like the Lakers did Jabbar in his later years. Give him and extra day or two between starts sometimes, etc.

    #177354
    gscottar
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    To me this isn’t Matz vs Scherzer or Matz vs. Stroman. I never had the expectation they would sign a number 1 or 2 starter. This is simply paying a very mediocre pitcher for 4 years. It may not be as much overall money as Leake but the number of years are similar and I am afraid the result will be similar. I would have rather they go after the low hanging fruit on a one year deal than be bogged down with this guy for four years.

    #177355
    stlcard25
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    I don’t think Matz is mediocre. I think he puts up an ERA easily better than Mikolas next year, and possibly better than Hudson and Waino as well. The price is not that bad. I don’t see a way that this deal is a “bog” on the system. People realize that we don’t have much money committed beyond 2 years besides Goldy (for three years) and Arenado (for 5-6 years), right?

    It’s fine to argue that you don’t think he’s a good pitcher. It’s laughable to argue that this will keep us from being competitive in the future.

    #177356
    kscardfan
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    Wouch. Give a wounded duck four years. One year removed from 30 IP and 33 ER.

    #177358
    PadsFS
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    stlcard25
    I wish we hadn’t seemingly burned the bridge with KK (although I couldn’t blame him for wanting to return home either) because Kim would actually be the perfect candidate.

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    I think he was mad he wasn’t starting when he was pitching poorly. I don’t fault the Cardinals.

    #177361
    LACardFan
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    I just hope they didn’t give Matz a full no-trade clause.

    #177365
    Brian Walton
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    #177366
    Mrperkins
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    The contract is too long if you expect regression or injury. I don’t. I think he will be a bargain. I would even go so far as to say I prefer 4/44 to 3/33 as I think his success here would have commanded more than 11mil after year 3. I guess time will tell.

    #177367
    PadsFS
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    Did you all see where Sherman said the Mets were willing to go to the same 4yr/$44M deal? I suppose it’s nice that the Cardinals didn’t have to pony up an addition year over the competition for once, like they did with Fowler and Leake.

    #177368
    PadsFS
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    Mrperkins

    The contract is too long if you expect regression or injury. I don’t. I think he will be a bargain. I would even go so far as to say I prefer 4/44 to 3/33 as I think his success here would have commanded more than 11mil after year 3. I guess time will tell.

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    I’d bet Matz is more likely to be out of the league by year 4. My guess is that this deal is similar to the Peralta deal where we get all the value in year one and two.

    #177370
    stlcard25
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    PadsFS

    I’d bet Matz is more likely to be out of the league by year 4. My guess is that this deal is similar to the Peralta deal where we get all the value in year one and two.
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    I dunno, I feel like the two deals are not that similar. Peralta was older, and it’s not exactly hard to look and see that he was a candidate for his body to break down early. Matz is still throwing hard and just had a pretty solid season. I think he will be a solid pitcher with our defense behind him as the homers shouldn’t be quite as plentiful in Busch.

    #177371
    Brian Walton
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    Pads said:

    Did you all see where Sherman said the Mets were willing to go to the same 4yr/$44M deal?

    The Mets just make themselves look stupid. After trading Matz away, why did they feel they deserved to get in the last offer? If they would have gone 4/46 (which is what the deal really is), they should have said so before it was too late. Sour grapes from Cohen.

    #177372
    gscottar
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    In seven seasons Matz has put up 9.4 WAR. To me that is the definition of being mediocre. Even if you throw out the covid year it is still mediocre.

    As for the Mets owner, he is a goofball. He seems to have more money than sense. I can see why they had to settle for their 20th choice of GM’s. Who would want to work for an owner who spends all of his time running his mouth on twitter?

    #177374
    stlcard25
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    WAR since 2015 for all our starters:

    Matz 9.4
    Flaherty 8.8 (5 years)
    Waino 8.1
    Mikolas 4.8 (4 years)
    Hudson 3.0 (4 years)

    I guess we have a rotation full of mediocre pitchers, two of whom will make significantly more than Matz will next year.

    #177375
    Ratsbuddy
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    kscardfan wrote:

    Wouch. Give a wounded duck four years. One year removed from 30 IP and 33 ER.
    =====================================================================================================

    I agree with this. One pretty decent year and an injury history. And four years. FOUR?????

    I hope I am wrong but I am afraid this is going to bite us in the rear about like Fowler’s contract did.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #177376
    mspaid
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    Good signing but they MUST not stop there. They have much to do and it will cost. If they don’t
    address the other needs then then having Matz won’t matter.

    #177377
    1982 willie
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    I don’t think matz is a bad signing. Yes I would prefer stroman but the Cardinals aren’t going to pay what he deserves so it is what it is. This is pretty much what they do. You can argue the years I guess but that’s all I am concerned about. If he pitches like he pitched this past year, he will be fine. Does it make us a lot better, probably not but it is an improvement.

    #177379
    Ratsbuddy
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    mspaid wrote:

    “Good signing but they MUST not stop there. They have much to do and it will cost. If they don’t
    address the other needs then then having Matz won’t matter.”
    ======================================================================================

    What else MUST they do? Every position is set with the possible exception of shortstop. And do you really expect them to shell out tons and TONS of $$$ to a Seager, Correa, etc, etc?

    There might be a reliever signing but we are now at the point where the team is set going into spring training.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #177382
    Mrperkins
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    I’d like to see a signing of a solid relief guy with closing experience just in case. Give me Melancon at 2/16 and I’ll be ready to call it an offseason.

    Edit: Didn’t realize he picked up that many saves last year. Might not come that cheaply.

    #177393
    mudville
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    Melancon is 36 years old. Let’s not take on any more relievers that are high risk. Hopefully, the front office can trade for a closer. We do need one, IMO. Gallegos is okay but you never feel secure when he comes into the game.

    #177394
    stlcard25
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    Melancon could easily get a 1 year deal so it’s not much of a risk. Really, closers are so volatile that it’s hard to project anyone. Find a failed starter who throws hard and see what you get.

    Another short term option is Taylor Rogers from MN. They do need a SS…

    #177395
    mudville
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    It will be interesting to see how much Matz improves with the Cardinals defense behind him.

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