Free agent Steven Matz

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  • #176589
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

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    #176596
    GameCard
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    Sounds like a target…we need an LH starting pitcher

    #176599
    Cards667
    Participant

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    They could use him, but I think a higher quality starter could be needed. I don’t know that I like the 3 year $27 million he’s projected at, but it’s better than the 5 year $110 I’ve heard mentioned for Stroman, who I’ve never been a fan of anyway. If Matz is healthy and keeping the BB% down he can be very useful.

    #176603
    stlcard25
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    Matz had very good defense behind him last year in Toronto and put up decent numbers. You’d have to think our defense would make him look even better. I’d probably prefer a trade for Manaea more as his walk rate is good and low, but this wouldn’t be the worst signing.

    #176604
    stlcard25
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    #176613
    PugsleyAddams
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    Steven Jakob Matz would be a great guy to have in the clubhouse, but we don’t need another starting pitcher who is injury prone. I’d pass.

    #176616
    Card4Ever
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    Cards need more than a #4/5 starter, which is what Matz is a best.

    #176624
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    I would like the Cards to seriously pursue Matz. He fits right in with what the FO is looking for especially $$ wise.
    Adding some proven depth now before Spring Training starts up would be nice. Who knows…. maybe another Wheeler.

    #176627
    gscottar
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    Matz is a pretty decent pitcher when healthy but his injury history would certainly give me pause. Signing him to a three year deal would be a big risk. I might consider a one year deal, but as stl25 mentioned, I would rather swing a trade for Manaea from Oakland.

    #176629
    Nigel T
    Participant

    Paid - Three Months

    One consideration is the psychology behind internal competitions. Explaining to Reyes, Hicks, Cabrera, etc… that we believe in you slightly less than we believe in journeymen from Asia with a history of inadequate performance make a Nick Martinez signing slightly awkward. Matz seems to echo similar sentiments, plus it removes the opening in the rotation in a much more emphatic manner.
    We need depth, but at some point Reyes needs to be given his shot. It terrifies me, too.

    #176632
    bccran
    Participant

    No mention of Thompson? Why?

    #176635
    gscottar
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    No mention of Thompson? Why?

    I think he needs to prove himself at AAA before he is ready to be mentioned for St. Louis.

    #176637
    PugsleyAddams
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Even though I’m not wild about signing Matz, he is a better fit than a Reyes, who would most likely break down before the All Star break if he was logging a lot of innings. Plus Matz wouldn’t cost us any picks since Toronto didn’t extend a qualifying offer his way. Oh how I long for Sir Lancelot Lynn. If we had kept that horse in the barn, we would have had another WS banner hanging from our rafters right now…and be in great position for another one in ’22.

    #176638
    bccran
    Participant

    Granted, GS. But no one is talking about him for anytime in 2022, and I believe that’s wrong.

    #176639
    Nigel T
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    Paid - Three Months

    Thompson is developing. His development is not equal to Woodford, Reyes, Hicks, and Cabrera. I like him out of the pen perhaps, if all goes well, at the MLB level, but I wouldn’t list him as a starter candidate yet.

    #176642
    bccran
    Participant

    I think the Cardinals would beg to differ with you, Nigel.

    #176643
    stlcard25
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    Thompson was pushed pretty hard and didn’t respond all that well. He has looked better in Arizona, but the walks are a concern. I would like to see him get more time in Memphis and maybe follow the path of Waino, Carlos, etc where he’s a late season bullpen addition. If he can handle that, then he’s an option to start in 2023.

    #176644
    bccran
    Participant

    That makes sense, 25. But it would be shocking if the Cardinals have ticketed a player who was the 19th overall pick in the 2019 draft for the bullpen, when he was pushed all the way to AAA his first full season with very little minor league experience.

    #176646
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    The statement should be clarified. The Cardinals have taken many minor league starters and put them in the pen for their first season before giving them a chance to start. Some, like Rosenthal and Cabrera, stayed as relievers. Others, like Martinez and Hudson, moved to the rotation. The organization will decide where Thompson best fits, but his draft position is almost irrelevant at this point. His talent will ultimately speak loudest.

    As a reminder, Woodford was a first-rounder, too. It may come with a bit longer rope, but with no guarantees.

    #176649
    Nigel T
    Participant

    Paid - Three Months

    Thank you, Brian

    #176655
    bccran
    Participant

    Sorry, Nigel, but that comment by another poster doesn’t wash. The Cards paid a large bonus ($3 Million) for the #19 overall pick in 2019, a starter out of the U. of Kentucky. They will give him every opportunity to remain a starter. They’ll want the biggest bang for their buck.

    #176658
    Nigel T
    Participant

    Paid - Three Months

    Part of that bang is getting actual value. Minor league development is potential future value. As was noted by another poster, Cabrera, Hudson, Carlos, Reyes, and others were developed by the major league staff out of the bullpen. All of those mentioned are considered starters even though finishing school was out of the pen.
    Further there is a subtle difference between being a potential starter and being a viable starter on a team with post season aspirations.
    Andrew Miller was an example of a starter who provided plenty of value out of the pen.

    #176660
    LACardFan
    Participant

    Free

    We also have the issue the Cardinals explicitly stated they are looking for pitching depth, and we all saw how the lack of pitching depth hurt them last year.

    #176661
    stlcard25
    Participant

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    Thompson is definitely on a starter’s track, but it wouldn’t make much sense to depend on him for 2022 given how his year went this year. Liberatore is well ahead of him developmentally. Hopefully both will be in the rotation in 2023 or 2024.

    #176671
    bccran
    Participant

    Thompson may not be ready this season. But if he pitches well at Memphis and we have some injury issues in St. Louis, you never know.

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