- This topic has 111 replies, 27 voices, and was last updated 1 day, 1 hour ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Thompson may not be ready this season. But if he pitches well at Memphis and we have some injury issues in St. Louis, you never know.
Of course we can never know. I personally hope he pitches so well that he is an obvious rotation piece at some point. It seems likely that he’s behind Liberatore, Woodford, Oviedo and maybe Rondon in the likelihood of being a fill in starter, at least before mid season. Hopefully those guys are showing themselves ready to handle the innings and provide a stable rotation going forward. There’s potential there for sure.
Still, it wouldn’t be an insult if Thompson is a reliever late in the year, or even a reliever long term. The Cards will make that decision at some point based on what’s best for the team. He will definitely start until that decision needs to be made, though.
Very true, 25. The first thing he needs to do is cut way down on his walk rate. He was fine at Kentucky, but had problems at AAA.
Giants offer to Matz is still on the table even after agreeing with DeSclafani, getting close with Wood and making progress with Cobb. All 8 of these teams have made offers. https://t.co/9003YCQINZ
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) November 23, 2021
Incentives could bring it to 48M. I actually really like this signing.
I can’t say that I love the signing, but I don’t hate it either. I’m not sure that Matz is that #3 we are looking for, but he’s an OK option for #5 in the rotation. The four year deal is a little scary, and I’d prefer Gray over him for around the same money. Still, the money is not huge…$11M a year shouldn’t bog up the payroll too much and worst case, he can probably be moved to the pen.
I wonder if that’s it for free agent pitching for Mo this off-season?
Cardinals sign ex-Blue Jay lefty to 4 year deal
Ok, that should scare some people but I pushed for Matz from the beginning of offseason and expected him to take home more cash. I expected him to sign for 3/45 so getting an extra year free (or for 3mil if incentives kick in) has to be good, right? I’m nervous but I do like the fact that despite not offering the QO, Toronto was reportedly seeking to re-sign him. Welcome to St. Louis Mr. Matz
One last comment: 2 weeks ago the word was we were looking at Heaney from the California Angels. He signed for 8.5 mil. I’d much rather have Matz at 11 than Heaney at 8.5.
<quote>One last comment: 2 weeks ago the word was we were looking at Heaney from the California Angels. He signed for 8.5 mil. I’d much rather have Matz at 11 than Heaney at 8.5.</quote>
I agree with this for sure. Relievers are going for nearly this value, so this isn’t a bad deal. Still, I’m a little gunshy thanks to the last lefty we signed out of Toronto (Cecil). Hopefully Matz turns out a lot better.
It means they signed Matz first.
— Derrick S. Goold (@dgoold) November 24, 2021
The #stlcards wanted a left-hander to step into the middle of their rotation. They got their man late Tuesday night when Steven Matz reportedly agreed to a four-year, $44 MM contract plus a signing bonus and $4 MM additional possible in incentives. (free) https://t.co/scUWXBGhks pic.twitter.com/ye0loqTIwt
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) November 24, 2021
Does anyone really believe the Cardinals would add Stroman or Scherzer, too? If so, please explain. Thanks.
I don’t believe that they would, but it doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t. The rotation is paper thin and Matz is not really an innings eater. I’d be plenty happy with having more certainty with all of the injury risk we have.
I would expect that if they do sign a “starter,” it will be someone like Nick Martinez.
I believe the coyness directly feeds many fans to set unrealistic expectations. What happened to pragmatism? Guess that doesn’t have enough sizzle.
What one thinks they “should” do and what they probably “will” do are almost never the same. Reporters should focus on the latter. Fans can dream about the former.
To date, I’ve seen no reports that suggest the Cardinals will add two front-line starting pitchers this offseason. Doesn’t mean they couldn’t, but I think the odds are low (unless they trade one of the incumbents away).
The rotation is Flaherty, Wainwright, Hudson, Matz and Mikolas.
To be candid I am not a big fan of this signing. Matz has a fairly extensive injury history and even when healthy his numbers are very spotty. At best he is a number 4 starter and four years is way too long. This has Mike Leake written all over it in my opinion.
As for comparing Matz to Heaney it isn’t $11M vs $8.5M, it is $44M vs. $8.5M and four years vs one year. I would have preferred the Heaney deal.
I think they overpaid, but I don’t hate it. I like it more than signing Stroman. I’ve never been a fan and believe he’s going to be massively overpaid. If Matz can get 4/44 then I have no doubt Stroman will get a contract any team is going to regret soon.
As far as Scherzer. I never thought he’d come to STL, as much as I’d love it. But the absolute only way now is if they were to somehow find someone to take on Mikolas contract, and I don’t see that happening.
And I’ll agree, 1 year on Haney is better than 4 for Matz.Well, that much is true. To be fair, fans set unrealistic expectations as a rite of passage into “real” fandom, lol.
Personally, I just want to see the best team on the field, as I’m sure most fans do. We all realize that the Dewitts have a right to make money, just as we have the right to spend our time, money and energy as consumers of the product that makes the owners and players quite rich. So it’s a give and take.
I’d still maintain that the rotation, though improved with this signing, has similar downside to the 2021 rotation.
Flaherty-hurt for half of 2021, should bounce back and be solid but not a given.
Waino-the old war horse, but at 40 is he really going to cheat father time forever?
Matz-solid mid rotation guy but his 2020 was baaaaad and he’s never pitched enough innings to qualify.
Hudson-missed almost all of 2021 with TJ, so you’d think he’d be a little limited.
Mikolas-hasn’t been reliable for two years and he was more a #4/5 guy in 2019.
Put it this way…that entire 5 combined for 488-2/3 IP in 2021. The Cards threw 1417 innings this year. That’s still a potentially large shortage of innings unless the health of these 5 improves quite a bit. To be fair, I think it’s likely that all of Flaherty, Mikolas and Hudson pitch more innings than 2021, but it could be offset some by Waino taking even a small step back (unless you see him pitching over 200 innings again).
Stroman or Scherzer give you something above 150 IP pretty much guaranteed. There’s a (big) cost though, which the Cards have shown in the past that they’re not very willing to pay. That’s why I still wouldn’t mind a trade for someone like Manaea from Oakland. He’s another durable starter, and he doesn’t walk many either.
For the record, Leake was five years, $80 million max. Matz is four and $48 MM. That is quite the difference.
The FO seperated “want” from “need”. Like us, they purchased what they need, knowing the roster has other issues.
There were higher quality starters available but the current “need” is GS/IP. Matz checks these boxes even if it’s at a league average quality.
Matz gets A. Miller money (AAV)
I’m not a fan of the terms, but Matz looked like their guy from the moment he wasn’t offered a QO.
I hope this means they go after another higher risk option as well though that could move to the bullpen, like Kim.
Nick Martinez seems like the guy but I really like Michael Lorenzen or Daniel Duffy too.
I’m neutral on this deal. Matz is another #5 type that they’ve added to the collection of #5 types. He also fits the oft injured nature of the rotation. He is far from a “frontline starter” but he can be serviceable. He could be ok overall if all things break well for the Cardinals.
The next moves will probably be a bullpen arm or two and a bench piece. As much as I’d love them to add another premium lineup piece, preferably at SS, that isn’t likely to happen. As for the current move it’s just meh ok to me.
To clarify, my use of the term “front-line starter” is a guy that will certainly be among the top five, enough so to push an incumbent out of the top five.
I believe Matz is that. If everyone is healthy, Woodford, Oviedo, Reyes, Hicks and the others won’t be in the St. Louis rotation.
I don’t think they will get another guy better than Matz. My guess is another Kim-like addition. If you recall at the time they signed him, they had no clear rotation spot so spoke of him being able to start or relieve based on needs.
Quote from PadsFS:
I hope this means they go after another higher risk option as well though that could move to the bullpen, like Kim.
Nick Martinez seems like the guy but I really like Michael Lorenzen or Daniel Duffy too. /End Quote
I wish we hadn’t seemingly burned the bridge with KK (although I couldn’t blame him for wanting to return home either) because Kim would actually be the perfect candidate.
For some reason the Mets (who traded Matz away) thought they had rights of refusal. They should have improved their offer when they could.
Steven Matz’s agent, Rob Martin, is declining comment. https://t.co/qNu8MjlWMo
— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) November 24, 2021
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.