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Regarding what they got for him in trade, they had no reason or motivation to take less than market value for him. Sadly, that seemed to be his value.
I disagree on two points. First of all, I posted on this Open Forum, right after the O’Neill trade the view of the Boston press corps. They were shocked at how cheap they acquired Tyler.
Second, once they decided to keep Olí another year, they became desperate to unload Tyler, and everyone in MLB knew it.
Just because you are whistling past the graveyard doesn’t mean the ghosts and goblins aren’t out to get you, lol.We will have to agree to disagree on one point. Had another team offered more than Boston, the Cardinals would surely have taken it. Mo had announced publicly that O’Neill was available so it was no secret.
My guess is that Bloom knew and likes the two they got in return. But that is just a guess.
We do agree that the Cardinals hurt O’Neill’s value. And it isn’t the first time they’ve done that with a player.
There’s no question that the Cardinal manager and his loose lips were the overiding factor that enabled the Red Sox to realize what they obviously feel was a tremendous bargain.
A two week hot streak and people lose their minds. We have years of experience with O’Neill. We know perfectly well that what everyone has seen for these couple weeks is not what they are going to get. He has been hot before. Maybe it will be a little more this time because he wants to stick it to the Cardinals and he’s playing for a contract. But the chance of a Luke Voit year is minimal because he will not stay on the field. This and that will be bothering him. The homers will tail off. The rally killing strike outs will push him down in the lineup, he will not be able to stay on the field and will wear out his welcome, much, much faster than he did here.
The Red Sox are banking that their minimal outlay will produce dividends something similar to O’Neill’s .286/34/80 and a GG season with the Cardinals, which is far beyond anything that Voit ever placed up on the board. Anyone who watched him in StL. for the first six years of his career knows it to be a genuine longshot, but the risk is near to nothing. If he scatters this week, the Red Sox aren’t any more worse for wear than when O’Neill arrived in Boston.
1td said:
The Red Sox are banking that their minimal outlay will produce dividends something similar to O’Neill’s .286/34/80 and a GG season with the Cardinals, which is far beyond anything that Voit ever placed up on the board.
In just 56 games (because of the shortened COVID schedule) in 2020, Voit hit 22 home runs and drove in 52. That was an amazing pace. His .948 OPS was better than O’Neill’s career best. Then the clock struck midnight…
What is your over/under on O’Neill playing in 56 games this entire season?
(I peeked. In six seasons, he has averaged 79 games played or just under half a season. Only played over 100 once.)
I’m cherry picking, but I don’t count ’20…No fans, no season. And if you want to compare numbers of games it’s 486/508 O’Neill/Voit. Both #’s are a 7 season total and in my view not enough of a difference to tip the balance on any reasonably accurate scale. As for the type of player, I’ll proclaim that the Red Sox are getting a much more talented and versatile player in O’Neill and they got him for a song. Over and under? I never make predictions, especially about the future, but he leads the AL in taters, runs scored, SLG and OPS…That means he’ll bust a tie rod end by Friday…Haha!
After 2021 I thought O’Neill had turned the corner and predicted MVP candidacy for him in ‘22. Alas he regressed and the injury bug hit again. Then ‘23 was a disaster with more injuries and Ollie’s ill-advised comments to the press.
Maybe this is the year he puts it all together. The potential has always been there with speed and power. Just has been too fragile.
It is not cherry picking to exclude 2020. I should have done that. Excluding that year, O’Neiil’s average games played goes up from 78 to 85. Hooray!
Which hurt reliever did we get for Tyler O’Neill?
Victor Santos. At the time of the trade, in December, Santos had missed all of 2023 with elbow injury.
right after the O’Neill trade the view of the Boston press corps. They were shocked at how cheap they acquired Tyler.
It is said that the pros know you aren’t just trading the player, you are trading the contract. The Boston press corps obviously didn’t factor that in. The Sox were going to have to pay O’Neill’s 3rd year arb salary, estimated at the time $5.5M. So there wasn’t going to be anything substantial coming back. The only other way for the Cards to get out from under the $5.5M would have been non-tender him, in which case we would have got even less.
Maybe the Boston press was shocked (though I didn’t read it), but here is what the team’s manager told NESN (their BSM equivalent) weeks after the trade, during spring camp.
“Manager Alex Cora told reporters this week at spring training that the Red Sox have a good idea of what the Opening Day lineup will look like. O’Neill isn’t projected to be one of Boston’s starting outfielders, but he and Rob Refsnyder will be relied upon in specific situations as the Red Sox hope to turn things around after two straight last-place finishes in the American League East.”
https://nesn.com/2024/02/what-cardinals-exec-believes-red-sox-will-get-in-tyler-oneill/
Like many, I hope O’Neill turns his career around, but suggesting it was a steal is not how the Red Sox saw it. In a minor trade between two last-place teams, the Sox got what they saw was a reserve outfielder.
Is it fair to say we received three arms for O’Neill?
Robertson and Santos as the trade package, and signing Middleton with O’Neills salary relief (2024 only).
I always had high hopes for O’Neill…very talented but streaky and couldn’t seem to stay healthy. We had that amazing run in 2021 but otherwise he was average or below as a player in St Louis. Hopefully he continues to do well in Boston. The Carda’ return for him is likely to be next to nothing, which isn’t atypical for a Mozeliak trade in these latter years.
Can’t wait to see how Boras tries to spin this. How about?
“My company is so successful, we decided to cut back on the number of clients we represent.”
LHP Jordan Montgomery has hired Wasserman’s Joel Wolfe & Nick Chanock as his agents, per sources.
Montgomery was one of the Boras Four, who were unsigned late into free agency.
I projected he would get 5 yrs, $106M and he eventually signed for 1 yr, $25M w/Arizona on March 26.
— Kiley McDaniel (@kileymcd) April 11, 2024
Monty was also a FA with no team compensation attached to signing him. He signs one year deal after watching his best case play out, leading into free agency.
Hard to absolve Montgomery of responsibility in this: players hire Boras for a reason, usually when they believe they have unusual/peak leverage entering FA and want Boras’s particular approach to extracting the absolute maximum surplus from bidders. Of course, that a particular strategy may be optimal across a portfolio of clients is of little consolation to the client who doesn’t end up winning big.
Sounds like Monty got some reasonable offers, but Boras advised him to hold out thinking the mega-deal would be forthcoming. It never happened and he signed what is really about the worst type of deal he could do – one year at a not overly high rate. It is unlikely he will increase his value much as he will be another year older, plus there is always the injury risk.
I think he probably had offers similar to Sonny Gray’s deal, but Boras can be greedy. There is a principal in finance that goes, “never make financial decisions based on greed or fear.” I think that may be a Warren Buffet quote but am not sure of the source.
Well, it didn’t take a baseball whiz-kid to easily envision that Tyler O’Neill’s bat would quickly backslide to it’s typically unproductive nature. He didn’t rip a HR yesterday…
The #Dbacks have signed infielder Kolten Wong as a Minor League free agent. He's been assigned to Triple-A Reno.
Wong was in #Orioles camp this spring but opted out of his deal and was released before the season began. https://t.co/nPFyRoA8Ws
— Sam Dykstra (@SamDykstraMiLB) April 10, 2024
His 8th team in the last seven years and 11 seasons total.
Free agent Tommy Pham close to deal with White Sox. Story: https://t.co/I2kjqXJfZe
— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) April 15, 2024
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