March 5, 2018 at 9:27 am #4499214NyquisTParticipant
A lot of fans are still leery about a Diaz-syndrome season for DeJong probably because its his first full season and he is a SS. The organization obviously has more faith in him.March 5, 2018 at 9:35 am #44994Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - AnnualMarch 5, 2018 at 9:49 am #44996OnyxgemParticipantFree
Sure wished the Cards would make a guy repeat their performance before offering up long term deals like this…just not smart to sign a guy after 1 big year like thatMarch 5, 2018 at 9:58 am #44997BlackHillsCardParticipantFree
Why this extension? Dejong still has 2 more years of Pre-Arb (major league minimum) before even hitting Arbitration. What was the rush to sign him?March 5, 2018 at 9:59 am #44998bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
The Cardinals like to do this, which is a nice incentive for other young guys. It’s a fairly low-risk venture, but you would think they would want to see a guy play a full year at the top level first. DeJong came on last year, but still had stretches where he struggled to make contact.
It does split the risk between player and club pretty good. If the player is a bust, he can still get some nice paydays and set himself up for life with even halfway decent investments. If he becomes a star, the club will pay below market value for him for a few years, after which they can either retain him at a market rate, or let him walk.March 5, 2018 at 10:32 am #45002stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
Kind of odd but not a super high risk I guess. Worst case, he’s a utility guy in a few years but he’s been pretty steady in the minors and should have a shot to be a solid starter.March 5, 2018 at 10:34 am #45003gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
This is a head scratcher for me. I don’t know why the Cardinals keep doing this with young players. Why can’t we make them prove themselves before giving them a long term deal? I don’t get it. There is nothing wrong going year to year for a few years. Good grief.March 5, 2018 at 11:36 am #45004858booyahParticipantFree
Yeah I don’t get why the need for this deal now when this could’ve happened next season. Even if he regressed into a .780 fringe .800 OPS guy this deal still could’ve been done down the road and would still be a good value for both sides.
Plus when comparing this to some of the other guys we’ve handed deals similar to this and then sent packing there’s a difference. A guy like Garcia was coming of a down year but had shown flashed of being a solid starter when healthy. Craig had a half season, a great postseason and then an all-star season before a down year and being dealt. Piscotty had a good half of his rookie year and then followed it up with a very solid campaign before an injury and personal issue season. IMO if a middle infielder sort of tanks it makes it in my estimation harder to get value from him and makes it easier for a team getting him for salary relief. I know quality SS are a dime a dozen(see Freddie Galvis making 6.5 million) but if Dejong turns into something we didn’t bank on then we’re going to have eat money and it makes more excuses for the ownership to not get a starter we need or a closer. You know like this season!March 5, 2018 at 11:59 am #45005so_cal_cards_fanParticipantFree
To me, this is good. Overpaid by perhaps $4m without considering the options, but have an option on his first two years of free agency at a great price, less than 1.5 WAR/year.
If we wait too long, we can’t buy out the free agency years with most good players/agents.March 5, 2018 at 12:08 pm #45008
I think after this year it would have been fine. He hasnt played a full year at SS or been in the bigs for a year. I love these types of extensions, but DeJong wasnt a cant miss prospect, and his big first year is nice, but it is too quick for me
I dont think we would have gotten much different a deal for an extension after this year and yet it woudl have protected us against implosion for at least one year.
ASking for at least 1yr worth of MLB results i dont think is too much to ask before handing on a bigger paycheck.
It’s not a lot of risk either way, but should Dejong implode (which happens to even the best prospects), people will be complaining about that 4mil for the next 6 yrsMarch 5, 2018 at 12:47 pm #45011
I like the deal.Locked up a guy with a good bat who is still only 24 and plays a premium position that the farm system is not well stocked in.You are paying more now but you will save come arbitration time.Another added benefit is that the Phammites on Cardstalk are raising holy hell because its not Pham.LMAO.The amount of money is not a bankbreaker so why be upset? Cards basically locked up a young guy at a important position and if he moves to 3B when Gyorko leaves 3B is covered.March 5, 2018 at 12:54 pm #45012TexasCardParticipantFree
How many of these deals have the Cardinals done in the past 10 plus years? And of those how many have actually worked out?March 5, 2018 at 1:11 pm #45013mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
This has been a worry of mine ever since Brian brought it up.March 5, 2018 at 3:09 pm #45014CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
While not a back breaker, this contract makes little sense to me strictly from a financial standpoint. Unless you are really confident he will be a super 2 arb guy, if he stays around a 3 WAR player he is probably in line for about a total of $24 million over those 6 year (yr 1-3 $2.5mm, yr 4 $4.2mm, yr 5 $6.5mm, and yr 6 $10mm). So the pre-arg/arb years have negative value. That means the value is all in the option years. For giving a player that amount of security the team should get a much bigger discount than that.March 5, 2018 at 4:03 pm #45016
I just don
t see the downside of this deal.He plays a position that the Cads system is lacking in quality starting SS.I think Tommy Edman profiles as a utility type guy.DeJong showed better plate discipline after only walking 1 time in his first 100ABs and he is better than average defensively at SS.His bat is well over average for SS.He is just 24 plays okay defense,hits for power etc; Whats there not to like.March 5, 2018 at 4:10 pm #45017
what does position scarcity have to do in this discussion?
we have him under control for every year we extended him…we dont lose him at SS unless we dont pay him his arb contracts…and while they COULD be more expensive we only would lose him if we chose to lose himMarch 5, 2018 at 5:27 pm #45019PadsFSParticipantFree
It’s pretty obvious this is why they do it, beyond the also obvious massive reward if he becomes an all-star.
Paul DeJong is receiving hugs and congratulations from several of his star teammates, beginning with Yadier Molina and Marcell Ozuna. Pretty cool moment as teammates show him love. Some asked if his mom cried. #STLCardsMarch 5, 2018 at 7:29 pm #45020
Since he does play a position that the Cards are not well stocked in (actually 2 positions SS-3B) and can adequately play 2b and is young 24 ,hits with power and plays average to above average defense …what
s not to like..except just complaining because the FO thinks he can be a building block for years.This extension makes a hell of a lot more sense than Molinas IMHO.So Cards paying him more now instead of paying more when arbitration comes up.Geez Jager..Cards sign a homegrown young talent and you complain? Did you complain Martinez got his extension? Carpenter? I just don`t see the issue here.The Cards are called cheap by many fans and yet when the team makes a move to lock in a young rising player people get bent out of shape.IMHO the Cards are saying we will pay you now instead of paying possibly a lot more in arbitration a couple of years down the road.March 5, 2018 at 7:30 pm #45021
Hey Brian-why no front page article on DeJong`s extension?March 5, 2018 at 9:01 pm #45026Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - Annual
I am concerned, but ok with the deal at the same time. No, I am not waffling.
I needed some time to digest the DeJong deal with #stlcards… I mean I was on assignment today… OK, the truth was that I wrote my take while I was in the air and just posted it now. I still hope you read it. (free) https://t.co/Nhnbqsreq7 pic.twitter.com/1XJjfeAdTk
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) March 6, 2018March 6, 2018 at 9:10 am #45045OnyxgemParticipantFree
Still think it is a stupid move at this point, the kid has not even had a FULL year and you want to give him that type of a money, he wasn’t even a top prospect…March 6, 2018 at 9:46 am #45046
Their track record with this is fairly good.
Not perfect, but good.
I would rather them overspend on young people by a couple million than overspend on middling veterans which seems to be the only other route they are willing to take.
If they’re confident enough in his work ethic that they feel he can learn to take a walk? Yeah… ok…
Having said all that… i honestly think this management team has jumped the shark…. but that may just be my knee-jerk reaction.March 6, 2018 at 10:09 am #45051
… I should probably explain better.
Worst case with this we should get our money out of this. Which makes it a coin flip on whether or not locking him in was better than going through arbitration repeatedly.
This gives him security and a happier clubhouse… So yeah… probably smart on that front.
Are there diaz/grichuk worries here? Oh god yes. Premium position allays some of that. If they are confident in his work ethic it helps.
“He was not a top prospect” is a non starter argument with me due to the consistent massive underrating of our system nationally. They don’t rate us worth a damn anyway so why give them credibility when they have very little on our front anyway?
Having said all of that… when you’ve got sosa and Munoz in aa and aaa among others… wtf are you thinking? Yeah there are different ceilings etc but that is cutting your kids opportunities off and devaluing any potential trades due to the other party knowing we are locked down.
This front office seems to keep wanting to block/devalue their minor leagues and sign gigantic question marks to long term deals. Not cool.March 6, 2018 at 10:14 am #45054
BW… read my responses before you fly off the handle about my position and using it as a platform to talk about something else
it is not much different than most of the sentiment
– i like DEJong…i want him to be good and for us to lock him up
– however with less than a year of service and production i think it is too fast to give him the extension
– asking for at least 1 full year of proof that a guy is going to be good is not too much to expect before giving a 6yr extension…maybe he proved the worth with his bat…but id challenge that too…what i am more concerned about is the SS defense, that is not something we can take for granted…last year was his first year playing it…and he was decent but we cant kid ourselves that he is anything more than average at this point….again…after this year i think we would know better because we’d have more stats and video and play and results to look at before we hand over money and organizational committment
– the amount of money isnt bad but i dont think it would have been monumentally different after this season
– this is not a bad move, just one i a question the timing of with regards to the specific situation- the money seems good, but if he fails this year that will be a lot of money tied up…and the commitment of the organization to that money will mean that he will get a super long leash, which means if he starts to flail, they will hesitate to send him to the minors, they will hesitate not to start him, and they will hesitate to go out and look for replacements
– this makes me feel like we are dumping a lot of eggs into this basket…so if DeJong is a SS then Machado is not in the plans, nor is any other SS prospect trade…and whether DeJOng can switch to 3b or not only switches the lack of looking in that direction either…we would potentially only be adding a SS or 3b to the system 25 man from outside or from within…most likely not a SS…so if Dejong starts to play defense like the guy who has never played year of MLB SS defense and only 1 full year last year playing SS at all…then we are stuck…
– i have never complained about the Cardinals not spending money
– as for the other contracts…no i did not complain…they also had much more service time than DeJong, especially when adding in there success in the minors too
– it is a great thing for DeJong…i only want him to succeed…but it feels too rushed IMO
and i am allowed to have these opinions and share themMarch 6, 2018 at 10:21 am #45056
I agree with jager as well…
If you’re going to do this, you wait a year to allow you to deal your ss that are in the pipeline at max value.
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