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gscottar, no one is perfect in future projections. If you think that is possible, your expectations are too high. I am pretty sure that Craig’s deal at the time was universally applauded. When he went bad, they had an exit strategy that came out good. You see that negatively overall. I see it neutral at worst. We will have to agree to disagree.
Wow, NJ, you really posted one spring training game result as validation (or invalidation) of a six-year contract? Talk about the need for instant gratification! 😉
Not at all. I was just picking on him BUT he hasn’t had a good spring overall. He could very well be lights out when the real games but I am not counting on it.I don’t get the need to sign him now but I am sure the people with access to the information to make such decision know what they are doing. Contract or no contract I am not sold on DeJong and that’s why I said 2018 should be interesting. Is DeJong the real deal? Is Wong ever going to be better than what he is now? Will Pham repeat 2017? Does Waino have anything left? Will Molina breakdown or can he keep beating the odds? Is Carp overall health a concern? Our pitching overall is a big question mark. I am looking forward to finding all those answers.
Brian, I didn’t state that anyone is perfect in projections nor did I state that exiting Craig’s contract was a bad thing.
What I stated was that being correct in projections is important and that I don’t think Craig is the only one they have missed on and that relying on that kind of exit strategy in the future is not sound.
As a side note, the fact that DeJong’s extension is one of the biggest events of our offseason is a sad commentary in and of itself.
All of this falls back on evaluating talent and I don’t think Mo is as good at this particular aspect as people believe.
I’d easily extend Pham for what we gave DeJong. I’d even give him the $26 million over 4 cost controlled years rather than DeJong’s 6 years. Of course I’d want the same option year pricing for Pham. I doubt Pham would do that deal though.
"ZiPS projects Paul DeJong as an average shortstop long-term. The projections pretty much matched the contract the #STLCards signed him to." – @DSzymborski on @101espn.
— The Kevin Wheeler Show (@WheelerShow101) March 9, 2018
If this team of”verage” players bothers you so much why not find another team with more “not average” players to root for.
Bw, NJ315 is a good Card’s fan and I think you know what he is saying. He wants a few “above average” players. Btw…. how does Zips make these projections anyway, some kind of analytical bs meant for fantasy baseball fans. You know that projections are only imaginary gimmicks written by pseudo espuertos.
Yes I few above average won’t hurt. Please don’t question whether I am good or bad fan. I love the Cardinals and have for many years. Hoping for less quantity and more quality.
A team full of average gets you average results. THink about that when you complain about missing the playoffs and want to question another person’s fandom.
So we can’t be a fan if we are sometimes critical of the team, especially management?? A good organization needs a devil’s advocate, not groupthink. We are people, not lemmings. Holding an organization accountable and having high standards is a good thing, not a negative. It has nothing to do with being a good fan. I have been a hard core fan for over 40 years but I’m not going to let the front office get by with being average.
so Ozuna is average?
CMart is average?
Reyes is average?we have better than average players all around the diamond…what you want is a superstar…and Cmart and Ozuna and Reyes all have that in them
Pham
Carp
Wong
Yadi
Fowler are all above average…even Gyorko is…DeJong performed better than that last year too..go look at some other teams before you start acting as if this team doesnt have any talent
We don’t have Kris Bryant or Harper or MAchado or Trout or Kershaw…get over it…but the players we have are not terrible nor even average
Jager if you are directing your comments to me please don’t tell me what to get over or how to feel or what my opinion should be or how to act. You can disagree with me and that’s fine but I am entitled to my opinions.
We have several above average players but not enough to win the NL Central. My comments were directed towards management, not the players.
The Cardinals have had a blueprint for success for several years and they are still trying to follow it. The problem is that the world around them has changed and they have refused to adapt. This mini-dynasty by the Cubs could be seen coming a million miles away but our management refused to believe it and I think still refuses to acknowledge it has happened.
Instead of confronting the Cubs head on we have continued our old approach of building primarily from within with average to above average players, trying to win the division with 90 wins, then roll the dice in the playoffs. I don’t think that formula will work anymore. If we ever want to take the NL Central back to its rightful owner we will have to get out of our comfort zone. We will need more than an average performance from our front office.
What did the Cardinals need to do differently over the last 3-4 years? If it was sign difference making free agents, who? If it was trade for a difference maker, who did we have to trade?
We have a plethora of minor leaguers who would fetch a big return but we have to be willing to part with some of them.
As for what should we had done differently? We should have been more aggressive in the trade and free agent market. Just this winter alone we had four objectives:
1. Big bat
2. Another big bat
3. Top of the rotation starter
4. Established closerWe accomplished one of the four with Ozuna. The other three objectives could have been filled with many FA’s or trade candidates that have been mentioned on this board hundreds of times but instead we chose to go small and hope for the best. That won’t get the job done.
gscott, is that the royal “we”? As in “we had four objectives”? 😉
Seriously, I don’t think those were the team’s objectives.
If those were not the team
Objectives then they had no objectives to actually go after the no central or the playoffs at allThere are multiple ways to build a winning roster. To say that because the Cards did not do it your way means they were not trying is silly talk.
Personally, do I wish they had done more? Sure. But you will never see me try to force my opinion as the only way.
Brian that’s a copout answer designed to try and calm people down and give no substance.
I love the base of how they organizationally construct rosters. I don’t love that they don’t have enough talent to win our division much less a world series and yet refuse to get off their butt and make the moves to do so.
We’ve got the organizational depth. That’s the single most important step in how you construct rosters.
After that, it has been murky as heck since larussa left.
The FO has gone after FA’s, but has always followed their internal numbers when they make their offers. They’ve came up short multiple times, but in hindsight, I’m glad we didn’t land Pujols, David Price or Jason Heyward.
they also just made Lance a Q-offer 5.4mil above what the market paid him. These were all player decisions to go elsewhere.
So, we haven’t landed that impact FA we all want, since Holliday, but we also haven’t tied up payroll on burden contracts.
There are FA’s still available today and we do still have payroll flexibility, fortunately. Maybe that “dry powder” get used next week? at the deadline? next winters FA class?
I’m with you on wanting more impact, but i’m also glad we aren’t bumping the salary cap due to burden contracts, with our hands tied.
I’m at least going to let the winter play out. we may nab a impact player for 40cents on the dollar and I don’t want it to be the day after I went on a rant about underspending 😉
You have to pay to play. Period. Which means you have to be willing to outbid the Yankees on occasion either in dollars or talent (I use them as the extreme example, NOT a specific one… Stanton not coming here was on him IMO).
Right or wrong, we aren’t. We hit that wall and stop.
Is that discipline? Yep. It is also the reason we have stagnated. The only way it pays off for us long term is if the world falls into a legit depression.
Possible. I know enough to even say likely eventually.
But in the meantime we have too much average talent and a decade of making ONE such move (ozuna) which is utterly unacceptable in a contender.
They’ve brought the impatience on themselves.
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