COVID19 Virus vs Baseball

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  • #134982
    Brian Walton
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    bling, there was no problem with Helsley getting his hair cut. The team was off quarantine and back home for the first time in going on two weeks. I imagine most of the traveling party had errands to run, just like all normal people would.

    The problem was that when Helsley tested positive, he did not call the stylist when directed to do so. Based on the info on the table, it is not more complicated than that.

    I have no idea what you mean when you assert that it does not “jive with what we were told”.

    #134983
    Euro Dandy
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    I dunno, Euro. We don’t have the job definition of an MLB contact tracer. It may not be what you assume it to be. I will see if I can do some research into this.

    I know there’s a huge growing curve with this, but contact tracer job descriptions and responsibilities are published (e.g., CDC is one source). If MLB wants to say they are doing “contact tracing”, then telling an infected player to call the barber is not even close to doing that. I’m not assuming, rather MLB is mis-labeling what they are doing. Yes, they are spinning, or ignorant, or not serious about it; similar to the arrogance of them needing only two days of quarantine.

    Was Helsley trained to be a contact tracer? Obviously not. It’s not merely to notify the barber. It’s to extend the “investigation” with the barber to trace the virus out to the very edge of the spider web of infection. Helsley can’t do that.

    MLB teams should be socially responsible enough to hire professionally trained, qualified contact tracers. They can do that at $25 per hour wage if they are socially responsible, and not just spinning or ignorant. Do they have one or not? It would behoove them to have one to work with the state health departments. The PR black eye with the public that this Helsley snafu could cause if others are later are revealed to get the virus from Helsley is something MLB can ill afford, especially if any of those infected have a tragic outcome.

    #134984
    blingboy
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    Cleveland doesn’t seem to be as closely knit as the other 29 teams.

    #134985
    Brian Walton
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    You raise a very interesting point, Euro. That of how MLB is handling contact tracing. As I understand it, MLB teams were asked to assign an employee to head this up. For the Cardinals, it is assistant GM Moises Rodriguez, a logical choice as he knows everyone and is bilingual. It was mentioned the benefit is to have someone the players are comfortable with, so they would be more open to share their contact details. The implication was that players may not be as willing to do so with a stranger. That is what I recall we had been told back when the first outbreak occurred.

    #134989
    Euro Dandy
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    That part is good Brian. Rodriguez it too high up the corporate ladder to do all the mundane details of investigating the contact tracing, and almost certainly lacks the knowledge to do it all. Therefore, in the event of future outbreaks, I say it would be wise to hire a real tracer to liaise with Rodriguez and the players to assist where possible and do all the other necessary things, i.e., contact those outside the organization such as the gov’t health departments and those infected like the barber. The contact tracers are well-trained on maintaining patient privacy and can just refer to the players as generic people. However, in Helsley’s case, his status was already public and is why it became an issue to the barber.

    The players are well-known public figures anyway, and if MLB isn’t doing this correctly, the public could put 2 and 2 together to figure out and possibly accuse MLB of being reckless (rightly or wrongly) weeks after an infection. If MLB has done its best to investigate each case, they’ll be in a better position to show they were doing their part to ensure public safety.

    #134990
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

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    Good points, Euro. I wonder if MLB considered it that way. At least they admit they are learning on the fly. It will be interesting to see if any changes come from this incident.

    #134992
    gscottar
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    Brian wrote:

    gscottar, I just got off the phone with a friend who said the same as you. I am sorry, but I am not hanging it on the Cardinals to have to call every person that every player and staff member in the entire organization came into contact with. That is unreasonable.

    Helsley is a fricking adult. He was told directly to contact the stylist. He didn’t do it. It is entirely on him. The Cardinals did not make his hair appointment.

    I guess what they could do, however, is follow up with every employee, asking them if they actually did what they were told…

    But my bottom line is take responsibility for yourself. Be a man, not a child. Now, maybe he was freaked out after just being told he had COVID, but still, it was on him.

    During more normal times I would agree with you but obviously these are not normal times, especially for the Cardinals, who are possibly another misstep away from losing their season altogether. And if the Cardinals lose their season how much revenue is that going to cost them? No more money from FSM this year? No playoff money? If there was ever a time to be extremely hands on and micro managing this is it. They should assign someone to take these guys to the bathroom if they have to. (I am exaggerating a bit there but you get the point. This is a huge financial issue for the Cardinals in addition to being a health issue).

    #134995
    Famous Mortimer
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    My friend works for St Louis County doing contact tracing, and has (as far as I’m aware) never told anyone “give that person who cut your hair a call yourself, if you like”.

    #134996
    stlcard25
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    My friend works for St Louis County doing contact tracing, and has (as far as I’m aware) never told anyone “give that person who cut your hair a call yourself, if you like”.

    Are you saying that the contact tracer themself would be the one to make the call?

    #134997
    Cardinals27
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    I just don’t understand why professional baseball players can’t inconvenience themselves for 90 days. How about limit all contact, and no new contact during that time frame. I was thinking back to the height of our lockdown in Illinois. I was texting my sister chatting about how few people I had been in contact with in 2 1/2 months. Not counting food pickup or delivery, I think I counted 3 or 4 other people I did anything faced to face with.

    #134999
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Welcome, Famous Mortimer. You are touching on a similar point to one made by Euro earlier. MLB’s version of contact tracing appears to be different from what others expect it to be. (I doubt they said, “if you like,” so I will gloss over that part.)

    C27, you mean sort of like a bubble? 🙂

    #135009
    Cardinals27
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    Are the Cardinals going to give any updates on Covid statuses or tests tonight? If not, doesn’t this mean the best scenario is working out Friday, and playing Saturday?

    #135011
    858booyah
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    No one knows currently but Brian did mention the new start time Saturday to 615pm. My guess is best case is Friday is the Cardinals travel day if all goes well they have workouts Friday night and play a DH Sunday.

    #135018
    mudville
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    My opinion is that there is still something unknown about how this virus is transmitted. It doesn’t make sense that the Cardinals and the Marlins are the only teams that have had a problem with this virus. To say that all of the other 28 teams religiously followed protocol, and that’s why they didn’t get it, is shallow and sort of self-serving, IMO. There must be something that all these experts have been missing so far. Our scientists aren’t as bright as they would have everyone believe. They haven’t even figured out a cure for the common cold yet.

    #135019
    so_cal_cards_fan
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    So does this mean that Helsley is case Alpha? Mo has said that everyone caught the covid on the plane except the original case, and Helsley certainly didn’t catch it on the plane, as he was already contagious in St Louis.

    #135020
    so_cal_cards_fan
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    Never mind. I can’t delete my question. I mistakenly thought this was in the first round of infections, not the second round.

    #135021
    fastbreak
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    On the contact tracing issue. In Illinois each counties health dept is responsible for all tracing. They do not expect a diagnosed/positive individual to call people. It is a huge job, but each county gets the names of all contacts and then the health dept. contacts and discusses the quarantine process and what is expected. I have had cousins and several friends go thru this. It would never be the responsibility of the sick person. That was a screw up on somebodies part.

    #135022
    blingboy
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    The Cardinals somehow opt out of all that health department bother fastbreak. The sick person is supposed to call the contacts and go over quarantine protocol. I think we are to accept that he made the rest of his contact tracing calls, as did the other 16 sick people.

    #135031
    gscottar
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    One aspect that I still don’t quite understand is who authorized the Cardinals to be released from quarantine in Milwaukee. We know that the Marlins quarantined for eight days and the Cardinals for five days but why? Mo has stated that “experts” gave them the green light to leave Milwaukee and come home. Who were these experts? Were they doctors employed by the Cardinals or at least advising the Cardinals? Were they doctors from the MLB corporate office? Did MLB sign off on the Cardinals leaving after five days? If so, why did they when the Marlins had to quarantine for eight days?

    #135037
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

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    gscottar asked:

    1) Did MLB sign off on the Cardinals leaving after five days?

    2) If so, why did they when the Marlins had to quarantine for eight days?

    You asked many good questions, but I am focusing on the last two.

    1) Absolutely.

    2) No one said specifically and Manfred is not meeting with the media other than selected one-on-ones that he can control. What they do say is that they review every case individually. My guess is that MLB got overconfident after the Marlins case and chose to lop a few more days off the 14 maximum.

    In fairness to MLB, the Cardinals were pushing hard to get out of Milwaukee – players and front office. Mo did acknowledge afterward that it was premature – as if we all didn’t know that already. The new positive cases could not be ignored.

    #135044
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

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    If he means a NEW positive test by a coach, I think the Cards cannot come out of quarantine. But it is unclear what he means. (There had already been assumed to have at least one positive coach, but that is old news – when Steinhorn was called up from Springfield last week.)

    #135067
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

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    Was thinking some more about this supposed new positive coach test. I guess the team will say that since he was not with the team since last week, he is no different from Lane Thomas, for example. My question is whether MLB would count the coach against their consecutive days of no positive tests rule. If so, they reset. If not, they plow ahead, and it seems the latter remains the plan…

    #135070
    858booyah
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    Yeah Brian my thinking as well. No one’s been around one another I hope. Now he might have taken longer to test positive but my guess is if everyone has been doing what what they are to do during this he might have gotten it from a family member and not from the previous outbreak.

    Are they going to charter buses for the team up to Chicago? It was hinted that may be the case.

    #135072
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

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    A second source reports a positive test by a coach and adds that Oquendo could be called up to coach third base. That is normally Pop Warner’s job. Warner is 51 years old. (Also, it could be another coach, with Warner moving to replace him and Oquendo replacing Warner. In other words, we don’t know for sure it is Warner yet.)

    This may also refute the earlier bus report, which was inconsistent with Mo’s earlier remarks.

    #135073
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    This is a footnote I am including here because I had not seen Goold’s prior report about Jeff Wright.

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