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That guy replied back quick. Cot’s is back up.
I dont think the team spent lots of money back in the 80s. Some of the best moves they made werent for highly thought of players at the time. You just need grear baseball minds in the right spots and get away at least a little from all these analytics. Until our farm system is running like it should be, we arent going to be successful. Its also a fact that everytime the cardinals have done well, we had great players. They dont have to be bought, they can be grown. In fact i think its better that way. But you have to have people in place that know how to cultivate that and then others that know enough baseball in the right spots to make the right moves to bring other great parts in. I want to get back for playing for titles, whether it be division titles, pennants, or world serues championships. No more being satisfied with mediocrity and hoping we do great things at the right time. Its one of the reasons ive never been big time fan of the 2011 team winning the world series. Now that team still had some winners on it but winning that world series with a team that wasnt really that great out of the wild card just set in some bad ownership decisions going forward. Others can have their own thoughts and think differently but thats the hill ill die on.
I’m not sure about how much money they spent, but the brewery ownership seemed to decide to seek out and secure some impact players like Sutter, L. Smith and J. Clark. They also sought the services of an accomplished GM/Manager named Whitey.
Whitey was a fine manager. I think he won because of his ability to recognize real talent when he saw it, and get the most out of it when he had it. That’s a rare talent, IMO.
Craig Counsel is the highest paid manager in the game, and he has a 210M$ payroll to work with. And he’s 4 games out of first place.
I’m not criticizing Gary LaRoque, former Cardinals field director. But I can’t help but wonder if he didn’t stay around a few years too long.
I seem to be in the minority, definitely one of the least vocal about Marmol. But I like the way he manages. He’s more inclined to give the younger players a chance to show what they can do. I didn’t like LaRussa. Without Chris Carpenter, Dave Duncan, Molina, Pujols, Wainwright, McGwire and a whole lot of other really good players, he wouldn’t have won more than any other manager, IMO.
Mudville, i will totally agree with you on larussa far as him needing dave duncan but he was a superior pitching coach. I dont so much the players because lots of teams have had great players but still lost. I thought larussa was a great situational manager but i dont think he knew talent and could really caputalize on it like whitey did. But like i said, thr cardinals need to grow their own talent. Pretty much every cardinal team that has won had generational talent. Going back to the 30s with the dean brothers, 40s with musial, 60s with brock, gibson. 80s with smith and magee, 2000s with pujols, molina. Now we had other good talent with those teams but it was all built around the best. Its been a long time since anyone coming up with cardinals or acquired young via a trade that anyone could say fit that mold.
Well, I’m in complete agreement with the notion that a manager’s chances for success are almost entirely dependent on the quality of talent he has to bring in to play. However, both LaRussa and Herzog realized success with more than one franchise. But yeah, I’ll acknowledge that TLR had the luxury of having the sort of player that only lands on the scene every 50 years or so.
Herzog had a lot of control over what the ML roster looked like. LaRussa had to fight for it, but had the heft to do so. Shildt got his head lopped off. It is a progression that corresponds to the rise of Mo and his philosophy. Ollie is a good man but he came up through the wrong organization. If he lasts more than next year under Bloom it will be an ominous sign.
To be fair Craig Counsell’s team has the second best record in the NL. Unfortunately for him his old team is better than ever. The Brewers have hijacked the old Cardinal devil magic.
Yeah Whitey was manager AND GM, at least for awhile. No manager will ever have that much control again.
Unless you are making absolutely ludicrous decisions – in game management has very little bearing on a team’s final record. On several occasions I’ve read that a manager only impacts maybe 5-6 games on a record each year.
Bullpen usage is probably THE biggest impact a manager can have.
Now if you are regularly bunting with your power guys or calling for the hit & run or steal of home – yeah, an idiot could screw up a game but within the ‘norm’ you get the picture.
Where I think a manager can make a difference is with team / clubhouse chemistry and managing different personalities to make sure there’s not a simmering feud going on.
You could put Casey Stengal / ‘name you greatest manager’ in charge at Colorado or Pittsburgh and they ain’t winning. Those clubs might have a few more wins but last place is happening.
You could also put me at the helm of the Brewers with the same coaching staff and we’d still be in first place as long as the players didn’t revolt.
Here is what I remember from the 1980’s:
– Gussie Busch wanted to win a World Series before he passed … so he hired Whitey and gave him the GM and Manager Role … Herzong excelled in rebuilding the club, winnning pennants and a World Series
– Herzong brought in McDonald to serve as GM around 1982 so he could focus on Managing
– Things worked well through 1987. After that, Gussie slowed down the Brewery Management became more involved … the beginning of the end of the era.
– Herzong becamme frustrated with the people overseeing the ball club as he felt they constrained him due to their lack of knowledge and experience in running a baseball organizationThe club only had four winning seasons between 1988 and 1995. They never made the playoffs. The best thing they did was hire Walt Jocketty within a year of selling the team. The new owners let Walt wheel and deal.
I am an optimist … I see the Bloom hire as something similar to the Herzog hiring. He will call the shots and has a lot of room to run. I believe he has already provided ownership with a roadmap for succcess. I see the club being a playoff contender in two or three seasons as long as ownershio does not meddle and pull “John Henry-like” moves.
I’m in agreement with the concept that a Big League manager’s job extends far beyond the scope of the 2 to 3 hours he spends managing a baseball game. That’s just a drop in the proverbial bucket when contrasted with the endless time and effort he puts forth in order to place players in positions that they’re best suited to succeed. He also has to possess the ability to constantly manage a clubhouse full of highly paid and pampered professional athletes who’s egos often times exceed the size and expanse of the cosmos. He also has to possess enough testicular fortitude to immediately let the media know that they know nothing at all. And lastly, and probably foremost in importance, he has to have the respect of the players on his roster and motivate each of them to put forth a genuine effort to excel and win baseball games. TLR and Whitey were masters at each and every one of these managerial tasks. That’s why they’re both members of the HOF.
From Redbird Rants. Lol take it with a grain.
Crooks has a .265/.331/.431 slash line with 12 home runs and 70 RBIs. this year. His offense has fallen slightly from last year, but he’s still a solid hitter with plus defensive metrics. He’s one of the best backstops in the organization at preventing stolen bases, something the major-league team has loved on its roster.
Yes every manager needs good players to win consistently. We have some alright players that kind of needed to play above their pay grade in order to keep us in a serious playoff chase for 4 months out of the season. Not the 2 months and then 5 games out of the last wild card like we’ve been getting.
858 shared:
He’s one of the best backstops in the organization at preventing stolen bases, something the major-league team has loved on its roster.
I can see why they didn’t include any supporting data.
2025 caught stealing
Crooks 28.7%
Bernal 41.2%
Ray Rod 30.7%Career CS
Crooks 29.5%
Bernal 30.1%
Ray Rod 31.5%
Herrera (minors only) 27.7%As you may notice, Bernal is having an outstanding year throwing out runners.
Ha there is a reason I don’t read anything from Redbird Rants. Absolutely have to cite numbers.
I will say in terms of scouts opinions of the 3 defensively, Crooks is the highest of each for fielding and arm. I trust the scouting opinion more than the minors numbers as the competition isn’t that great there and guys are intentionally working on things. The A is average.
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+ | | Field | Arm | +-------------------+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+ | Player | BA | MLB| FG | A | BA | MLB| FG | A | +-------------------+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+ | Jimmy Crooks | 55 | 55 | 70 | 60 | 55 | 60 | 60 | 60 | | Leonardo Bernal | 55 | 55 | 55 | 55 | 55 | 55 | 55 | 55 | | Rainiel Rodriquez | 40 | 45 | 60 | 50 | 40 | 45 | 50 | 45 | +-------------------+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+As I remember the 80’s, Augie LOVED the Cards. AB III loved soccer and didn’t give a rat’s fanny about the Cards. I really worry we are looking at the same with BD III.
(Not the soccer part, mind you, just the caring about the Cardinals other than $$$.)
Raniel Rodriguez is only a few months past being 17 years old and he’s OPSing almost .800 at Palm Springs. This is pure speculation, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he eventually starts getting some playing time in one of the outfield corners.
Thanks for sharing, ATM. I agree with you/them. But we need to keep watching as guys improve (and decline). Sometimes an early label sticks even though skills change. For example, the line between 55 and 60 is very narrow.
I think the coach makes a lot of difference but only if they are givrn the proper authority or at least have the relationship with the general manager to influence decisions. If they are just a gama manager, then i think they are pretty much useless. The best head coaches know what they want their team to look like and they generally have an idea of what kind of players they need to get there whether via draft, trading, or free agency. Unfortunateky now most are just a figurehead to take the blame when things go wrong.
What is the Cardinals rotation for next year?
Pallante definitely can’t be counted on for the rotation as he is close to a 5 ERA and is way too inconsistent.
I would think the locks as of now are….Gray, Liberatore and McGreevy and there are some concerns for all of those 3
The Internal options are few, maybe Matthews if he finishes strong at Memphis…. Doyle, kind of a big jump…. Hence and Z. Thompson cannot stay healthy to be counted on.
I don’t see DeWitt spending any money on free agents unless they are cheap.
It’s Gray, Liberatore, and McGreevey. Pallante gets a chance in Spring. My guess is they sign a starter – mid level guy – 3 or 4 years. And, they also bring in 1-2 scrap heap veterans. Matthews gets a shot too but I feel like he has under a 50% chance to make it out of the gate. The organization at least shouldn’t count on him taking a spot. There’s some chance Leahy gets a shot too. I could also see Curtis Taylor getting a call up this season and if he does ok, he’d be in the running too.
Here’s my odds on each barring injury/trade for the 5 starters next season:
Gray: 100%
Liberatore: 100%
McGreevey: 95%
Outside Quality Starter: 55%
Pallante: 50%
Outside Scrap Heap Starter: 30%
Matthews: 25%
Leahy: 25%
C Taylor: 20%
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