Cards in July – Buyers, Sellers , neither or both?

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This topic contains 161 replies, has 27 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Cardinals2016 1 year, 11 months ago.

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  • #29195
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    thejager
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    WIth the Cubs depleting their farm system like they have done I am thinking they are in for a downturn…eventually…and though mosto f their youngster come up for FA around 2022….if they don’t lock many of them in before that, they will have a good chance to lose them…, they have big bucks…but they have a lot of young talent they are going to have to pay …and they still need to replace their closer and TWO rotation spots

    If Schwarber doesnt figure it out and this year’s Addison Russell is the real one…not to mention the aging Zobrist..well…they may some issues in the lineup too

    rotation:
    Lackey is gone, Arrieta is gone
    Lester, Quintana, Hendricks,…..Montgomery and Butler are nice ideas but they won’t be real options IMO

    they use their money to go out and sign an SP….I’d think they’d aim high for Darvish but i think he’ll go somewhere else…then they will probably end up with ARrieta re-signing for more than he is worth or Lynn…who i’d hate to see in Chicago…but i could see him filling the Lackey void

    will they sign two SP’s? I think they will not…barring a signing of a fringe starter to add to Butler and Montgomery for the 5th spot…but i am wrong a lot..so maybe they get Darvish or aRrieta and Lynn…we are talking 25 to 45million if they go with two…that puts them in the 120mil range

    Wilson fixes the closer spot for one more year…but he just doesnt seem to be the impact closer they’d probably want…if they want a big one…what? 10-15mil?

    To me it all comes down to when they decide to start extending their youngsters….Bryant and contreras…probably are the big ones…Baez and Russell are big too…but i could see them wait a little…Schwarber coudl bolt if he doesnt get paid too…but Rizzo deserves a raise…and shoudl probably fight for it…and i’d like to think he gets it…

    Chicago has the money and the flex time…btu without a farm system i see their window being until about 2021 before all this using of their high end farm players comes back on them… all it will take is a couple big injuries and/or really down play from expensive signings to do it…

    Slwo and steady has won the race for the Cardinals for a long time…but that does mean getting beat and out maneuvered for years at a time…

    do i like slow and steady all the time? PErsonally i’d take a few more chances…but then again…i love the Cardinals…and they dont often take big chances and yet are successful and competitive year in year out…so maybe i DO liek the lack of movement…who knew?

    #29196
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    Onyxgem
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    Cards front office shows how stupid and incompetent they are

    #29198
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    gscottar
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    Personally I think the lack of movement stinks. Yes the Cubs are setting themselves up for a window closing flop in 4 years but that is still 4 years away. Until then we just have to sit idly by in our corner and have sand kicked in our face. I don’t like it.

    #29199
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    thejager
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    looks like the answer to the post was answered…. “neither” it is…

    I am curious how the front office will spin their position for not acquiring any help for now, or for helping the team going forward…

    at the end of the day, we probably just didnt get the value for the things people wanted…and that can be just as good a move as doing bad moves just to do moves…

    feel free to close the thread

    #29206
    colhusker
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    Wow not a thing done to help the team.

    #29207
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    Bw52
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    What kind of message does it send to the fans when the FO comes up empty again?What about the players?The players have to know this team has flaws and needs some help yet nothing is done to help this season.I understand the long term view …………..I really do.But you also have to give people a reason to hope things will get better real soon.Not trading Lynn …………was it a case of now getting good enough return or was it being afraid of trading Lynn might say ” we give up on 2017″ to many fans?Sometimes you have to take a chance instead of hoarding al your toys.Just very disgusted with management due to a lack of help brought in.

    #29208
    colhusker
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    What kind of message does it send to the fans when the FO comes up empty again?

    The do nothing is right on par with Matheny calling his fan base out for being upset with the poor team he has put on the field.

    #29209
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    LoganAlpha30X7
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    We’ll probably get some little good for nothing trade after the deadline for a guy that gets released before the end of the year and then they’ll say that Wainwright and Piscotty coming back from injuries are like a trade…guess the front office really is pathetic…

    #29216
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    Cardinals2016
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    “The Yankees were never going to build exclusively from within. No team does that.”

    https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/in-just-one-year-the-yankees-have-gone-from-deadline-sellers-to-budding-powerhouse/

    Hopefully, someday, the Cardinals front office will realize the above statement.

    #29218
    UConn Card
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    The following players on the 40-man roster were not drafted by the Cardinals (note: ‘drafted’ in this case includes players signed as International free agents and developed in St Louis’ minor league system):

    Dexter Fowler (how soon we forget)
    Jedd Gyorko
    Jose Martinez
    Randal Grichuk
    Mike Leake (mayhaps we want to forget he’s on our team?)
    John Brebbia
    Matt Bowman
    Brett Cecil
    Zach Duke
    John Gant
    Sean Gilmartin
    Seung Hwan-Oh

    Now, the argument can be made that their attempts to bring substantive outside talent into the organization are rather crapatastic. But over 25% of the 40-man are not home grown.

    PS: I deliberately left Waino off that list. No, he wasn’t drafted by St Louis but we got him early enough in his minor league years that I consider him home grown.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by UConn Card UConn Card.
    #29221
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    Cardinals2016
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    I am fully aware not 100% of the team is homegrown. I was being facetious – because the Mo doesn’t like to make trades and doesn’t like to wade into free agency.

    Now, you are going to come back and say the Cardinals were such big spenders last year, but the reality was the net effect on payroll was $0. Dexter Fowler’s signing wasn’t to upgrade a position, it was because we had a void in the outfield.

    I’d rather the front office try to build a contender than do what’s expedient.

    #29222
    bicyclemike
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    The point about the division is real good. In the NL Central, this club is still in the hunt and felt that they have a better shot with Lynn than losing him and adding whoever they were offered in return. The Cardinals would have dealt Lynn if the deal was right, and obviously it was not. But put us in either of the other divisions, and the offer may have been “right”.

    Now their problem will be signing him, or risk losing him to a division rival. They are gambling that he will go to a team not close to St.Louis. Lynn is a real good pitcher, a solid 3.5 WAR guy his last two years (’14 and ’15), and he’s on pace to beat that this year. He’s going to get at least three years from someone, and possibly more unless he breaks down some later this year.

    What will really kill our efforts to re-sign him is the Leake deal. Lynn deserves something comparable to Leake, even better as he is only 6 months older and is a better pitcher. The Cardinals are unlikely to do that, although Lynn’s numbers warrant a very lucrative deal, again provided he stays healthy all year.

    Looks like we are going to play the hand we were dealt in April, with variations dependent on injuries. We really are not out of this, as one stretch of say 10 wins in 13 games puts us right there. This team is talented enough to do that – whether they will or not remains to be seen. We’ll see how things look in late September.

    #29224
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    LoganAlpha30X7
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    And what happens then if/when we’re like 10 or more games behind the division leader and we don’t turn the season around, if/when we don’t make the playoffs with Matheny and others be gone or just go on with business as usual…

    #29225
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    NJ315
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    105 games they are a middle of the pack team. I am extremely disappointed they did not sell.

    #29228
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    Bw52
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    I just don’t see how anybody can feel that this current team as it is right now is a serious realistic contender for anything other than staying at .500. Horsecrap offense,incompetent management,inept field management,unreliable bullpen,a catcher who thinks he ought to be manager and a team that can`t even run the bases worth a damnor play decent defense. Other than that everything is just peachy in Cardinal land.

    #29236
    Brian Walton
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    Mozeliak quotes from today on the no deadline activity.

    Mozeliak On No Trades

    #29237
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    1964cards
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    Understand the logic laid out by Mo … Still disappointed the front office could not make a deal to help the big league team now. Will have to see how the season and off season play out, but there are gaps that need to be closed if this club is to compete foe a divisional title. Standing pat in the offseason cannot be a viable alternative.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Avatar 1964cards.
    #29240
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    LoganAlpha30X7
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    And yet that’s been our way of doing things over the past few years, I wonder what would happen if Piscotty and Fowler were out for a good chunk of time if that would force the front office to actually do something…

    #29243
    Brian Walton
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    I understand the logic, too. But it was probably just as hard to find trades in other years and when all is said and done, they have left the 2017 team to survive on its own. It is the first time in least a decade that they made no trade deadline moves to help the current team.

    I am not necessarily disagreeing, but am also not shying away for saying it is what it is.

    #29244
    Brian Walton
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    Trade deadline tidbits from Ken Rosenthal.

    The Cardinals made an offer to the As for Sonny Gray. Tampa Bay talked with the Cards about Trevor Rosenthal.

    #29257
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    thejager
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    ooh…. I wondered if we’d jump in on Gray…i’d also bet it might have coincided with a move of Lynn to Cleveland if i am guessing…

    Piscotty + Weaver or Flaherty for Gray? interesting…

    As much as i think it would have been selling low on Piscotty and Weaver …maybe even Flaherty too… i think i make that deal…

    it clears up some outfielder jam and some starting pitching jam but brings back a controllable #2 at worse
    and it frees up some money…

    still, i think if we’d jumped in a little earlier on that deal i think they could have made it work taking out Weaver or Flaherty and including someone else of good value (or multiple) from t the pitching side…and if we didnt want to move Piscotty I think we could have used the young outfielders to make it work too

    not sure what we were looking to get back from Cleveland for Lynn…

    nevertheless, a deal for Gray doesnt make us worse for this year or going forward… dealing Piscotty may be selling low but he hasnt been doing well so his loss for this year would have been negligible plus we needed to clear a starting position somewhere on the field if we want to truly upgrade the offense even in the offseason (though it seems like they were willing to deal Piscotty it was just the pitchers added that got in the way) and losing only one of Weaver or Flaherty wouldn’t have killed us for this year at all and going forward we were going to have a hard time fitting them both into the rotation anyways…ESPECIALLY if we are now looking to keep Lynn after not dealing him..

    sure i’d have liked to get maybe Ryan Dull also in the deal…or maybe sneak Alonso in for the stretch run…but it seems liek we had a shot to do exactly what we all wanted…make us better (or at least not worse) now…and going forward…at the expense of good players but IMO not irreplaceable ones…and both at positions of strength and depth for our system…yes it woudl be FOR a player we have strength and depth in BUT he is controllable and would be a nice young replacement we dont have to HOPE for being good in the pros…liek we do with Weaver FLaherty Reyes etc etc…

    missed opportunity IMO…but i’m sure it is a lot harder than it seems…

    #29259
    Brian Walton
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    Ortiz offers his commentary on the deadline.

    #29263
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    Onyxgem
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    Ehh the Cards front office doesn’t have the stones to go make a big trade, they are to scared of what would happen if they mess it up so instead they hose the fans over by doing zero

    #29265
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    Cardinals2016
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    After drastically overpaying their big free agent signings this past offseason, can you blame them for being gun shy about making trades?

    #29267
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    mspaid
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    I read what Mo said and after listening to him for a few years I just laugh. He is so full of BS, which is his job but it gets old. Teams all over baseball put deals together to help them for the playoff run but for some reason the Cardinals are unable to do that. For some reason only the Cardinals are unable to find a partner. Only the Cardinals are unable to make a deal that is favorable to them. Only the Cardinals are unable to make a deal that will help in 18 and 19. Only the Cardinals are unable to “Invest” as Junior said. It used to be frustrated but as I said now it’s just funny. All the talk of we were in contact with teams and “tried” to put deal together for a bat or a relief pitcher. To me that’s all crap. They had their plans going into the deadline and they knew exactly what they wanted to do and they did it…nothing. Welcome to the “CARDINAL WAY”!!!!!!

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