Cards in July – Buyers, Sellers , neither or both?

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This topic contains 161 replies, has 27 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Cardinals2016 2 years, 3 months ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 162 total)
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  • #27373
    bicyclemike
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    I think the thought is the Cubs have under-performed more than the Cardinals. They have a higher “ceiling” than our club.

    #27380
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    bccran
    Participant

    Just heard the owner of the Cubs in a long interview on a sports talk show. He’s said that the business plan of most teams has changed and it’s now mainly build from within. Quality players are being extended by their own teams.
    The ones that hit the FA market may have some unseen warts,

    #27382
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    bccran
    Participant

    Best to know what you’ve got in a number of areas with a player before commiting long term dollars.
    You know your own home grown players the best.

    #27384
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    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I’m not a fan of locking up players into their older years. Those contracts seem to not turn out as expected. Molina’s contract included… I think that he would’ve enjoyed playing with a different team. His tenure with the Puerto Rican team is a good example and even playing with different teammates in the AS Game seems to invigorate him.
    I’ve always have been a fan of the home-grown guys because I follow them through the system for a number of years. That’s me, I know others feel differently and have less loyalty for our farmhands.

    #27387
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    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Personally I’m not a fan of locking up younger players long term either. I know that teams love the cost certainty but in many cases the players flop. I think this could be due to various factors. It could be the pressure of a big contract or it could be complacency due to a big contract. I prefer the year to year arbitration process.

    #27390
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    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    The longer-term contracts are a necessary evil in baseball. There should be a combination of both long and short term control. Control = very important to F.O.s. Most premier players will demand the multi-year deals. They have to put food on the table too.

    There’s a pretty good article that may interest some:

    In Market Where Control is Key, Cardinals are Flush with Trade Assets

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Avatar 14NyquisT.
    #27393
    Avatar
    bccran
    Participant

    Goes back to the philosophy that has worked for the Cardinals. Get to know the player first. Exceptions are Fowler and Leake, and I’ll bet they would grudgingly admit in private a certain degree of remorse over both of those signings.

    #27400
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    SoonerinNC
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I don’t see Leake as a really bad pick up. Certainly he was not that good last year but has been pretty good most of this year. He is one those guys who has to be right and when he isn’t he is pretty bad, but on balance I think he will be good more than bad.

    I didn’t want Fowler when they started shopping for center fielders. He was a good leadoff man for the Cubs last year and a real catalyst for their offense. But based on the defensive stats from last year he was not a good center fielder. Actually Grichek had better defensive stats all around. My problem was that if we were looking to improve the defense I didn’t see him as an answer to that issue.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Avatar SoonerinNC.
    #27401
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    SoonerinNC
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    We do have a real surpluss of outfielders. The Cardinals have not been real good at selling high so I don’t know how they get out of it. Of course, Bader, J A Garcia, Mercado, Arozarena, Carlson and to a lesser extent Sierra have yet to prove that they can do the job at the major league level but as it stands now they won’t get a chance unless the Cardinals move some of the guys in front of them.

    #27409
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    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Going year to year doesn’t prevent players from putting food on the table. If the players perform they will be paid well through the arbitration process but they have to keep performing each year until they reach FA.

    #27418
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    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Paid - Monthly

    A surplus of mediocre outfielders. Not sure how much trade value they have.

    #27422
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    bccran
    Participant

    Leake will make $17 million next year and $16 million the following year. Just as Reyes, Weaver,
    Flaherty, Gallen, Hudson, etc. are arriving, and we already have
    Mayers, Gonzales and Gant here. Didn’t need Leake for a long term contract with a NTC.

    #27424
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    858booyah
    Participant

    Free

    I think the hope was when Fowler was ready to assume a corner role it was either Grichuk turning a corner and possibly assuming the role back in CF or one of the young bucks takes over. No one should’ve ever thought he was going to be a CF for the entire part of his deal.

    I don’t hate the Fowler deal. I think he can be a 20 homer 70 rbi .350 OBP guy for the majority of his deal even thought he’s not a rbi guy (he was projected to drive in a career high this year by one site). But that still doesn’t solve the issue that had plagued this team for over 2 years. We don’t have a legit clean up hitter and we don’t have one in our organization upcoming.

    I really think we should make a play for Stanton. That’s the guy that can fill a void for a couple years. Yelich is a nice player but he doesn’t fit what this team really needs.

    #27427
    stlcard25
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I agree with you on most of these points. A guy like Stanton helps fix a lot of holes. The main concern with him is of course the cost of that contract. I do think a lineup with him crushing homers at cleanup would make our 1-5 pretty formidable though.

    #27435
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    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    There is definitely a power shortage in this organization with very little hope of any of our prospects being that big bat. The FO was counting on Adams, Piscotty, Grichuk, Peralta, Fowler and Carpenter to provide x amount of HRs this season…. you know how that plan is working out. Time for plan B…. find a power bat. Mo, ya got no other choice.

    #27451
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #27457
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Did you think the Cubs would give up?

    #27461
    Ratsbuddy
    Ratsbuddy
    Participant

    Free

    High ERA, WHIP not very good, too many walks, too many homeruns, all of this in 2017. Career stats are good but not great. In my mind this is a very questionable move by the Cubs. Guess time will tell how it works out.

    #27462
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    thejager
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I personally thought they’d target Archer from the Rays…but Quintana works pretty well…and is a shorter drive 😛

    #27463
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    SoonerinNC
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    That is like us giving up Reyes and Kelly and two minor prospects. We seem reluctant to give up our prospects for someone that can help.

    So what do you think.
    1. We don’t feel that Quintana would improve our starting rotation that much
    2. We are not in as much trouble with starters as the Cubs so not willing to part with top prospects for the potential return.
    3. We are looking more long term and feel that Reyes would be better than Quintana soon.
    4. Unwilling to give up Reyes for anyone short of Stanton like players.
    5. Weaver and Kelly would not have done the deal. Maybe would have had to throw in Flaherty or Alcantara.
    6. Other

    #27465
    stlcard25
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I’ve never felt Quintana was all that great. He is certainly better than what they have in their rotation but that’s a pretty high cost.

    Hopefully he goes winless the rest of the year. ?

    #27466
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    Bw52
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Brewers made a deal and acquired a LH bullpen guy from NYY.Cubs got Quintana……….what`s happening in Stlouis………………………….empty space so far……….
    Counting on Reyes could be a major gamble…….no one knows if he will be the same pitcher when he returns.Cards still have question marks in the rotation with Wacha,Waino,and Lynn all being inconsistent.Weaver,Gonzalez in AAA could possibly fill spots but neither have been outstanding in chances to start.Still need to trade for a controllable bat using any of the players needed except the kids.I would trade Lynn,Carp,Gyorko,Pham,Piscotty,Diaz,Wong etc for a controllable bat.

    #27473
    Avatar
    PadsFS
    Participant

    Free

    The Brewers got a guy with 6 career ML innings.

    Quintana dealt with the WBC, some blisters, etc. this year. He’s been himself since June.

    #27491
    Avatar
    LoganAlpha30X7
    Participant

    Free

    So far we’ve done nothing at all, just waiting for Mo to call Wong and Siegrist returning like a trade…before they’re both hurt like two weeks later and done for the years…

    #27492
    Avatar
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Here’s is what Stanton is owed per Baseball Reference:
    2017 27 Miami Marlins $14,500,000 6.118
    2018 28 Miami Marlins $25,000,000
    2019 29 Miami Marlins $26,000,000
    2020 30 Miami Marlins $26,000,000 may opt out of contract following 2020 season
    2021 31 Miami Marlins $29,000,000
    2022 32 Miami Marlins $29,000,000
    2023 33 Miami Marlins $32,000,000
    2024 34 Miami Marlins $32,000,000
    2025 35 Miami Marlins $32,000,000
    2026 36 Miami Marlins $29,000,000
    2027 37 Miami Marlins $25,000,000
    2028 38 Miami Marlins *$25,000,000 $25M Team Option, $10M Buyout

    Besides this insane contract with 11.5 years remaining on it, Stanton is only healthy for about
    120 games per year on average. Forget about the Cardinals acquiring Giancarlo Stanton. He is not coming to St. Louis.

    Also, IMO, there is almost no chance that Donaldson is coming to St. Louis. The Blue Jays biggest need is for a catcher. The Cardinals are not going to give them the best catching prospect in all of the minor leagues for an aging third baseman who is surely a rental.

    The Cardinals are flush with pitching. Lets just see where that takes us.

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