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They thought that there was enough leadership in Molina, Wainwright, and Carpenter, and that Fowler was very upbeat and would keep things loose in the locker room.
Holiday was the first one to the ball park everyday and the last one to leave. A very selfless player and selfless person. Would stop by Childrens Hospital on the way home with his wife to visit kids. When he left, there was something missing.
It was their choice not to exercise an $18 million option on a player who really should be a DH. But they badly missed a Holliday type this season. They’ll do everything they can to try to find another Holliday type in the off season. Maybe Hosmer?
The flare up with Yadi didn’t help. Waino’s troubles on the mound didn’t help. And they expected more out of Carpenter as far as being a tough, hard nosed leader type.
Right. There appears to be some serious structural issues. The team’s leadership situation does not look good, at least from the outside. Add to that a group of others who allegedly are not team players – and there seems to be more roster problems than can be addressed with a quick fix or two.
Because Ortiz’ column drew heavily on the Cardinal Way and pointed a finger at non-Cardinal developed players, it left him and the team open to national ridicule from Deadspin.
https://deadspin.com/purity-of-cardinal-way-being-polluted-by-outsiders-say-1819264744
i have never liked Ortiz…from day one IMO he writes to get clicks and whatever the hot topic is…even if it is at the expense of the team and IMO his credibility…
that article calling Fowler out can only be read negatively on him as well as the Cardinals…regardless of its validity….Ortiz is preying on the unhappiness of the Cardinals fans now who are angry and displeased with the outcome of this season…
seems like that whole article could have been written (and might have been) months ago after that team dinner…but he couldnt publish it when the fans were still optimistic…now that that is over he just fans the flames and throws whomever he can under the bus to get some clicks
The comment made by Wainwright that is most bothersome –
“Guys left there (the restaurant) with a sense of confidence that I
hadn’t seen in years around here and a sense of purpose and some togetherness that was just off the charts.”Because he’s saying that there was a confidence he hadn’t seen in years. I thought one of the strong points of the Cardinals had always been a quiet confidence. Waino’s quote threw me.
Being realistic, the Cubs took over clear leadership of the division with the NLDS win in 2015. Everyone saw it, including the players. Heyward was the only one to say it publicly, as he was getting out of Dodge.
Since then, the Cards have just 15 wins in 42 games against the Cubs.
Indeed. It was obvious in the second half of the 2015 season that the Cubs were trending upwards, and the Cardinals downward. Still the club won 100 games, and then won the first game of the division series against Chicago. Had they been able to complete that lap, maybe things would have gone a little different.
But still, it might have just been a blip in the rise of the Cubs and fall of the Cardinals. But for the Cubs to keep moving forward, they need to win this series against Washington. The regression in their record this year, and the late game meltdown in game two of their NLDS series had them in a similar position we were a couple of years ago after 2 games of the NLDS.
Deadspin has always ragged on the Cardinals and everything about the Cardinals including the Cardinal Way moto and the Best Fans in Baseball (that really does need to be retired).
Ortiz also named Gyorko and Cecil, not just Fowler. What I find annoying is the posters who complain the baseball writers don’t hold the team accountable and then when the writers write an article calling out players the same posters pitch a rant about how the writer is awful. I’ve been a fan of Ortiz since day one and find it refreshing to see a St. Louis writer who doesn’t always pour the Cardinal kool-aid but actually states whats going on in the organization. If you want kool-aid just listen to Al Hrabosky.
Their is irony in Ortiz who is considered an outsider by many readers calling out players who are outsiders. At the same time, it may take his outsider eyes (and lack of loyalties) to point it out.
The team continues to use BFIB in their advertising. Just last week, they cited it in celebrating 3.4 million fans.
Assuming for a moment that the outsiders theory is valid, let’s consider what the recommended solution is – to get DIFFERENT outsiders.
The problem is not outsiders, per se. The problem as presented seems to be that they acquired the WRONG ones. (If you believe the theory at all, which I am very unsure of.)
I think the problem is the team did not win and I think Matheny has soured the clubhouse with his Mathenaging style. The animosity in the clubhouse dates back before Cecil and Fowler were even Cardinals, so I don’t see the notion of “outsiders” being the problem.
I don’t know about the other posters here but BFIB really needs to be retired and its lost its meaning and it no longer serves a need. I still enjoy the “Baseball Heaven” mantra but BFIB is overused and needs to die already.
I also thought it was odd that Ortiz did not include Leake in his column. I did mention Leake in my article yesterday as I put my thoughts down in one place.
https://thecardinalnation.com/in-culture-change-who-will-be-the-cardinals-next-leaders/
Please inform myself and others reasons of concern regarding Leake and the animosity in the clubhouse.
Here are words on Leake from P-D columnist Ben Fredrickson. My summary: An outsider who did not appear to be a good fit with the Cardinals.
“I never got the impression that Leake didn’t want to succeed here. And his teammates liked him, so the cancer clubhouse narrative doesn’t hold up. He just seemed … out of place. Did things his own way, and wanted to keep doing that. The idea that he wasn’t trying isn’t accurate. Look at what he did to start the year. I’m not sure he has the Seattle turnaround here though. Better fit for him there.”
I heard Mike Leake interviewed when he arrived at Winter Warmup after he had signed his FA contract. He was asked if he had ever met MM and if he was going to get together with him while in St. Louis. He said that he had never met MM, and that he didn’t know if he would have time to get together with him on this trip in. I thought – uh oh.
Regarding the “Best Fans In Baseball” motto, that is used by most every team that has a strong following. The Cardinals have probably marketed it more than other clubs, but out here in Denver I hear that now and then. Most of it is related to the Broncos, for which they will say the “best fans in sports” or maybe “…in football”.
But the Rockies will play up their fan base now and then, as they draw pretty good even in down years, which for them are many.
Rockies’ games tend to be more of a place to party for the millennials, rather than die-hard baseball fans. Cardinal games seem to have more people interested in the game, although I have not been to one in a few years so maybe it’s different now.
Guys who have been to the playoffs and know what it takes to get there may be the best leaders.
Molina, Waino, and Carpenter all qualify. Fowler and Cecil do too. Heyward, Gyorko, and Leake didn’t/don’t.LOL. Heyward doesn’t?!?! He’s been in the playoffs 6 years out of his 8 in the league. He may have the highest “rate” of making the playoffs of anyone in baseball. Yadi is at 9 out of 14.
Oh gosh! I’m so terribly sorry, Pads. In the 5 years he was with the Braves (2010-2014) he was indeed in the playoffs 3 times. They lost in the WC game one year and the NLDS the other 2 years, but that doesn’t diminish it. In my post, I was of course only referring to his pre Cardinal time. But the mistake is huge. Please don’t laugh at me. It was an unintended and honest mistake.
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