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Tommy Pham is continuing to work hard to improve and hopes the Cards will keep him.
Just my opinion, but I think he uses being the underdog as important motivation.
Bccran, I wouldn’t say you are that transparent. You often state things with little or no evidence. I assume this info comes from your “sources” who you are rightfully trying to protect. However, as far as I know you have no track record of being accurate because of these sources so you can’t blame anyone for being sceptical. I know I am.
CC –
St. Louis is a big small town. When someone is involved in business, charity work, socialization, etc. over a period of 50 years, they end up meeting and knowing a lot of folks. Some of those folks have worked within the Cardinals organization or are presently doing so. There is no boasting involved. Just facts. In the future, I’ll refrain from breaching confidences, even if in the past it has been done only on an anonymous basis.And one more thing, CC. Our moderator has asked that we talk baseball and not about other posters. I plan to honor that and hope you do too.
In my opinion on who should go.
Last off season: we signed a guy that was coming off a very good season in his contract year. The guy that was supposed to play CF for a number of years, be a lead-off hitter and a spirited presence in the clubhouse.
This off season: what we’re left with is a guy that thinks he can play CF, doesn’t hit well enough to lead-off, hasn’t taken over much of any leadership, complains about this and that is bothering him almost on a daily basis, has opened his mouth when it should have stayed closed and has become OF piece that we really don’t need, blocking younger guys that will be better if given the chance. And we pay him what? Jon Jay took over his spot in CHC and outplayed him. This has turned into a scam. DeWitt got hosed, and we have to put up with it?
Good luck to Jay… as long as the Cubs lose.
14NyquisT
This off season: what we’re left with is a guy that thinks he can play CF, doesn’t hit well enough to lead-offFowler’s wRC+ for the last three years – 109, 128, 121
Batting lineup – wRC+ in MLB (Cardinals)
1st – 99 (118)
2nd – 108 (116)
3rd – 116 (103)
4th – 110 (109)
5th – 103 (89)
6th – 97 (101)
7th – 93 (100)14NyquisT
complains about this and that is bothering him almost on a daily basis, has opened his mouth when it should have stayed closedWow, you are really sensitive. Here’s what stood out to me in the latest Fowler article:
Several times Sunday he referred to the adjustments he had to make this season — to a new team, to a new city. He and his family bought a house in St. Louis that “my family loves.” He outlined how he could be more comfortable come 2018, but most of all just ready to play more often, wherever he hits or fields.
“I see myself being here for a long time,” Fowler said. “It’s what I signed up for. That’s what my contract says. I’m looking to build a legacy with my teammates.”Bccran, I have never attacked you personally. I consider commenting on the credability of one’s source well within the realm of baseball related discussion as well as discussing the accuracy of one’s use of baseball terms. If you don’t, I am unconcerned.
CC – As I said. If you doubt the credibility of me or the sources I know, it’s simply not worth listening to your challenges. Or quoting the sources anymore to hear your doubt. Don’t need the aggregation. And if you believe questioning one’s integrity is baseball talk, I’ll have to disagree. Now, why don’t you drop this silliness like Dome asked and move on to pure baseball talk. Thank you very much in advance.
Talking about the Cardinals’ need to change the clubhouse culture, P-D columnist Ortiz identifies Fowler as “usually the last guy in the clubhouse and one of the first to leave.”
That’s an excellent article, Brian. Thanks for posting. It aligns with what I’ve heard from someone close to the organization who said that top management feels that there needs to be a leadership shift. The change of pitching coach and bullpen coach is only a first step. The next will be player moves to bring in new veterans who are proven leaders to be examples to all of our younger players who have been called up and will be called up.
I question whether a seamless leadership transformation is possible – at least quickly. I see this as a longer-term issue that has evolved over time and will take time to change.
That story identifies Wainwright, Molina and Carpenter as the current leaders, which certainly makes sense. Two of those three are almost certainly going to be back for 2018 – and quite possibly all three. So then you have a mix of the “want-to-be leaders” who have to earn the respect of a new clubhouse and the trio of “incumbent leaders” still leading as they have before. That may not instantly shake out.
Pretty damning article. If that is the FO feeling it sounds like Fowler is on the block. Of course with the NTC it is already difficult and why would they put this article out there and make it more difficult yet?
Personally, how much time a person puts in seems less important than how they conduct their business while they are there.
If you are the last in and first out, it does not send a good signal to young players. The 2017 outfield was basically Fowler and a bunch of young, not fully proven guys.
I have no idea if this info was planted, but my guess is not. The daily beat writers can easily see over the course of the season who is coming in last and leaving first. Mentoring is much harder to assess as it can occur any time.
The column also singled out Cecil and Gyorko and is drawing a divide between the outsiders and the internally-developed players. I am not sure the lackadaisical play can be delineated that cleanly. In fact the only concrete on-field example cited was a mistake by Rosenthal, who of course is not an outsider.
The column identified a problem, but I am not fully satisfied with the analysis of why and how realistically it could be addressed.
Interesting contrast in the two recent articles linked. First you have Tommy Pham, a true professional who constantly seeks improvement. Then you have the second article talking about a clubhouse where there is not enough professionalism on the club.
It is certainly more fun to go to work in an environment where you have the leaders setting an example by being there early, and staying focused and resolving problems. That is how a strong private enterprise operates, along with a culture that values the employees.
Professional sports is a bit different, as the talent levels are lot more defined and a talented, winning team will trump everything else. But then a strong clubhouse, where guys are exhorting and encouraging others will keep your head in the game, keep guys focused on what to do in every situation.
From what we hear and read, it sounds like a lot of that was lost when we basically swapped Holliday for Fowler. We will have to see if things are different in that regard in 2018, when the roster might look a lot different.
On Holliday, since some wanted him to stay, it is fair to note that 2017 was his worst season ever, with a slash line of .231/.316/.432/.748. Comparable to Randal Grichuk’s numbers this year as both had slightly-below average OPS+ of 95. Holliday played DH and 1B exclusively – no LF – and made $13 MM. If he plays next year, it will be at 38 years of age.
I think it was time for a change for Holliday and the Cardinals. The problem seems to be that the existing leaders and new signees apparently did not fill the perceived gap.
Ortiz is Fowler’s biggest fan. That article was pretty damming about Fowler.
The only way you can address that as an organization is to open up ALL the outfield positions to competition next year. If Fowler is a $16.5 million 4th OF, so be it. That is the strongest possible message the organization can send.
To walk on eggshells about possibly moving him to LF is ridiculous. Tell him to live up to the contract or ride the pine.
The insiders vs. the outsiders is an interesting theory. Management should be able to determine who team leaders throughout the entire 29 other teams. If a team feels they are in need of leadership they should target those types to acquire. If a team has good clubhouse leadership maybe you don’t feel like it would be wise to rock the boat and create turmoil…. target the types that don’t take leadership roles.
ps. Holliday has been a team leader for the Yanks in ’17 and the fan base is very much behind him, despite his low numbers (other unexpected production has covered up for his lack of production). When he was with the Cards he didn’t have the same amount of support from the fan base (see Molina) If he had, he might still be here despite the fact that we only have limited opportunities to use DHs.
I’m almost positive that I remember articles with Mo praising Fowler’s leadership both at the time of signing and at the start od Spring training. Did Mo not do his homework?
It is funny that a team overpaid its star justifying it on leadership, that they laud the leadership of a contraversial manager, yet still apparently lack leadership. Things that make you go hmmmmm.
It is important to remember as at this point, only Ortiz has questioned Fowler’s leadership. At least I don’t recall anyone on the team commenting. Or have they?
Here is an ESPN story from February, lauding Fowler for bringing music to batting practices. Teammates suggest they will play looser as a result. I guess that kind of happened, but not exactly as hoped.
Even Bernie got in on it. March 6: Dexter Fowler as a Cardinals Leader. “Fowler has changed the clubhouse vibe.”
Perhaps both Heyward and Fowler haven’t provided the leadership for the young players that they had hoped.
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