Cardinals OF roundup, who stays and who goes? (Grichuk)

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  • #42187
    Avatar858booyah
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    Bader can. O’Neill can

    Forsch Would you start them over Martinez? My guess is they’d have no choice but to play Fowler in CF seeing as they seem hellbent on playing Ozuna in LF.

    The only place I want Fowler banished to is LF because he arm sucks and team are going to go hog wild on it with less than 2 out. I can’t believe this team and most of this fan base can’t see that. Ozuna should be in RF. I don’t care if his glove plays better in LF and is gold.

    #42188
    Avatarforsch31
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    I think Fowler should be in left and I would start Bader in CF before I would move Fowler back there. O’Neill might need a little more seasoning but should be ready by June. Garcia is another possibility for CF.

    I hope Martinez plays mostly 1B. If they play him in the OF, I hope Ozuna plays CF.

    #42189
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    One thing to note on Conner Greene is that he was pretty good the first 3 months of the season (sub 4 ERA). The last 2 months he was absolutely horrible. Injury? Tipping pitches? Mechanics out of wack?

    #42191
    Avatarbccran
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    The Cards now have 4 pitchers in the minors whom I believe have hit 100 on the gun – Hicks, Helsley, Fernandez, and Greene. Some scouts apparently think Greene can project to a #2-3 starter.

    The Memphis outfield this season is going to be really interesting – O’Neill, Garcia, and Arozarena.

    #42192
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    While I don’t think there is such a thing as too much depth, I like this trade. Any one of Bader, Garcia, O’Neill, maybe even Mercado or Arozarena should be able to approximate Grichuk’s value. Picking up a good bullpen piece and potentially a future ‘pen guy is a good value.

    #42194
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    I would not assume Arozarena over Mercado for Memphis. Looks like it could be an interesting spring battle. If Bader is with StL, Mercado gets a slight bump in my assessment due to his CF defense and baserunning. Arozarena has a better bat. It may get down to which is needed more – or maybe they even come up with a four-man OF rotation.

    #42196
    Avatarbccran
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    Is there any chance O’Neill beats out Bader at ST for the big club’s fourth outfield spot?

    #42209
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    I think bader is in stl regardless.

    I think the interesting guy here is valera. It just looks to me like they want to give the Swiss army knife a shot to stick so they can carry more pitchers (like they are probably going to do anyway).

    #42219
    AvatarBw52
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    I think Valera will be lucky to hold on to his 40-man roster spot with Schrock and Edman both in AAA some time this season.Valera offers little besides the ability to switch-hit.I think he gets passed by very quickly by Schrock a nd Edman.Munoz is already on the 40-man roster and he can play several I NF spots and some OF.

    #42227
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    Very possible. But that kinda made my point for me in some ways.

    Give him his shot. If he sticks or hits enough you CAN (do not have to) deal him for more depth.

    If he doesnt stick he gets cut.

    If he does stick he can still get passed and if so will likely be gone at some point.

    #42238
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    bccran, of course O’Neill has a shot in the spring. At this time last year, not a one of us would have given Jose Martinez any chance of making the team, but after the best spring of anyone (and Pham’s continued struggles), he made the squad and never looked back.

    #42239
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Even if Valera has a great camp (and I highly doubt he will get enough ABs to show much), do you really think he would unseat Greg Garcia? I don’t. Then there is the matter that Valera is not an MLB-quality shortstop. My guess is that Munoz will get the extra looks this spring. As a better prospect also with Triple-A experience and also already on the 40-man, it only makes sense. It would take a major run of injuries for Valera to get a real chance, IMO.

    #42246
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    He doesnt need to displace anybody imo…

    Assume 13 pitchers (stupid but assume it because matheny isnt smart).

    Carpenter
    Dejong
    Martinez
    Garcia
    Gyorko
    Wong

    Molina
    Kelly

    Ozuna
    Fowler
    Bader
    Pham

    Thats twelve guys. Maybe I missed someone.

    They SHOULD take 13 or 14. Imo valera bridges that gap because you can play him nearly anywhere.

    Also, do you really think nobody is going to get hurt?

    Maybe valera is just the insurance policy. Im betting given their depth theyll give him a shot. Otherwise there are better ways to use that 40-slot.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by AvatarBrianpnoonan.
    #42248
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    You mean, “He doesnt need to displace anybody” – if the Cards construct the roster differently than they have already announced – or if injuries occur that no one can predict – and then only if he plays better than others. If you make your own assumptions, and disregard how low the combined odds may be, of course you are going to be right.

    Regarding the 40-man spot, on that we agree. If they bring in other MLBers from the outside before the season, Valera and Mayers are most at risk, IMO.

    #42249
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    Im going by the assumption that the front office wont let matheny be stupid anymore (13 pitchers).

    I didnt see any announcement thereof.. So if I missed it so be it.

    And yeah, I’m counting to 13. Because sane managers in the national league where pinch hitting is necessary constantly don’t take 12.

    #42250
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    I already posted this earlier in this thread and in the WWU recap article from Saturday. (You can also listen to the audio if you choose.) Mo clearly said that they are going with 13 pitchers. He even said that 13 pitchers is “in his blood”. He did say the first week schedule with openings, coupled with the later start to the minor league season, might enable them to go with an extra hitter the first week only.

    But believe what you want and even bash Matheny for a decision that seems to be enthusiastically supported by the team president. (My guess is they have analytics that back this.)

    #42252
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    Didn’t see that sorry.

    I can see 13 in the al… In the nl… All I will say is omfg… I dont have a rant in me this morning for how dumb that is. If the rosters went to 26 fine. They haven’t yet.

    #42253
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    My prediction: MLB will not increase ro$ter $ize$ unle$$ the union agree$ to lower $alarie$. What are the odds of that? The 10-day DL gives them more levers to switch guys in and out, especially pitchers. Mo also said we should expect to see the Memphis shuttle much more active in 2018 (which they can do because they swapped out a bunch of veterans for younger players with minor league options remaining).

    #42254
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    Agreed.

    All I have to say : if you need a pinch hitter in the 12th inning, you cant call to memphis for a hitter.

    If someone cant pitch because his arm is tired, you can call another guy up before the game.

    Stupid is the mild term. Extremely mild.

    #42255
    Avatargscottar
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    With the way the game is evolving towards starters only going 5 innings I’m surprised we haven’t seen a team carry 9 or 10 relievers.

    #42257
    AvatarNJ315
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    Exactly gscottar

    #42259
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    I agree in a sense.

    That’s what your aaa club is used for… If you need an arm and have a good aaa club youve got several ready made middle relief arms at minimum.

    Last I checked we’ve got arms coming out our nose at aaa and a very good team. Find a way to use them instead of limiting yourself to two pinch hitters per game.

    It is insane roster management

    #42260
    Avatargscottar
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    Yep, that’s what the Dodgers did last year. They rotated pitchers on and off the 10 day DL constantly to keep everyone fresh. I’m a bit surprised MLB hasn’t revisited that issue of DL manipulation.

    #42280
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Gordo is “puzzled” by the Cards’ “rush” to trade Grichuk. I am puzzled why he is puzzled and based on the reader comments, I am not alone.

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/gordo-cardinals-rush-to-trade-grichuk-seems-puzzling/article_d03cafc4-58cb-5743-ab2d-80d3f76a7df1.html

    #42288
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    Gordo needs to actually pay attention to the team that he is supposedly very familiar with… Because he has written commentary on them for years.

    We’ve got three guys for sure, and up to six that would give us what grichuk did last year. At least three should give us more if we give them a shot. And that’s the point.

    We get a very good pen arm and another 100 mph arm. For our fifth outfielder.

    Repeat : our fifth outfielder.

    And he said it himself… We’ve got more guys in the pipeline. MANY more.

    You have to keep that pipeline from clogging or you end up with a very crappy situation.

    It isn’t rocket science.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by AvatarBrianpnoonan.
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