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Burleson isn’t what the Cardinals need. They need pitching, and lots of it.
I don’t think Burleson is a better all around player, than say, Wetherholt. He runs hot and cold and is bad against left handed pitching. He is also older than all the other regular position players except Nootbaar. If the team is going for the youth movement, Burleson doesn’t really fit the bill.
If they traded Burleson, Herrera could move to first base. He has played it before in the Winter Leagues.
Herrera is slumping, it happens to all players at some time. I see it as temporary. He shouldn’t catch, but he is one of our best hitters when he is on.
I don’t have a strong urge to trade Burleson, but if Bloom can get a decent return, why not?
They need pitching,
They need pitching and middle of the order power bats.
I would much rather move Herrera than Burleson, but it depends on what we can get for who.
How do they get middle of the order power bats by trading away two of their middle of the order power bats?
Stepping back, they don’t have enough standout MLB players to be competitive. And they aren’t going to get them by trading the ones they have for others. They need to develop them. That takes time, patience and some good fortune.
Yes exactly. But the proposition was trading Burleson if the return is good pitching, with Herrera filling the hole. I would rather move Herrera.
I prefer they focus on trading players with contracts expiring this year or next, which neither Burly nor Herrera qualify. The two have relatively low salaries and help keep the team somewhat respectable while player development works on the next generation roster. The best time to flip them is when they are getting expensive and closer to free agency, not now.
But, if I had to choose between the two, I would trade Burly, as he has 2 1/2 years of control remaining while Herrera has 3 1/2. That assumes the take in return would be comparable, which we have no way of knowing.
May
Velasquez
Soriano
Nootbar only for a good prospect
and get a real good prospect
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Mayb PallanteI just dont see herrera as that good. If hes a power guy, why does he only have 11 homeruns. Thats not real power for this point of the seaaon. Jj has more than him and i dont consider him a power guy. I unserstand the financial side of control but personally i look at the quality of the player. To me burleson can do more with the bat but thats just me. Sure we need pitching but you still have to be able to hit. From what ive read, there arent many power if you will right handed bats available in the draft so you might be able to get more for herrera than burly.
I agree with Brian. As I said in my previous post, I don’t have a strong urge to trade Burleson. But if a decision was made to trade him, I would not be upset about it.
Herrera is having a lesser season offensively this year than previous years. That does not concern me. My only complaint about Herrera is that he is not a good defensive catcher, and I would prefer he not catch. I can’t say there is a link, but he hit much better last season when he wasn’t catching.
It is unlikely that either Burleson or Herrera will be traded so the discussion is really academic.
I like Burleson fine. But we aren’t going to pay many players above fair value in the new business model (fa) the Cardinals are going to operate under. And when we do, it isn’t going to be Burly. And it may not be Herrera either. It will be players with multiple tools, and or consistent power. Or pitchers. So they have 3 choices with those guys. Keep them thru their arb years than let them go fa, extend them to club friendly deals, or trade them while they still have value.
I think it is a fair argument to say the Burly and Herrera don’t fit on the roster together and one should go. Herrera is currently a full time DH masquerading as a catcher two days a week. Can he play 1B? Probably but we don’t know for sure. If Contreras can make the transition I don’t see why Ivan couldn’t.
I would be fine with trading one or the other but not both. We should be able to get a very nice prospect haul back for one of them. I know everyone is focused on pitching but perhaps we should scour around the league for a young OF or 3B. I know the Cardinals and Cubs don’t do trades but we need someone like Matt Shaw.
I wouldn’t trade Burleson. Maybe if we were bowled over by an offer. In fact, I’d like to extend him.
gscottar said:
I think it is a fair argument to say the Burly and Herrera don’t fit on the roster together and one should go.
Why do you say that? One plays first and the other DHes. One bats left, the other right. There is no redundancy and neither one of them is blocking anyone else.
The Cardinals already cleared up the redundancy at these positions when they traded Contreras.
I keep telling everyone. We just need to sit tight and keep what we have. And the only way we are going to contend in 27 or 28 will be if we add a big bat to the middle of the order and a really good starting pitcher. And the only way that’s going to happen is free agency.
I don’t recall reading much in this thread about the possible impact of the CBA regarding the trade deadline that’s upcoming or free agents after this year.
Rats, some other team had to DEVELOP that MOTO bat and really good SP you want. The Cardinals’ plan is to do the development themselves. And if they still have gaps 2-3 years down the road when those additions could help the team go deeper in the playoffs, then they will go into the market. It isn’t going to happen now.
They had the MOTO bat (Contreras) and the really good SP (Gray) you want as recently as last season and the Cardinals still didn’t win. It was because the rest of the roster isn’t good enough. You have to wait until the entire roster improves.
Perfectly said Brian. In the meantime we need to accurately evaluate our current roster and system and extend core pieces where warranted.
I think Burleson has evolved into a fine defensive 1st baseman. So much so that Goldy really hasn’t been missed. The age difference between Burly and Herrera is not sizeable. I would definitely not trade Burly to give way to Herrera manning 1st base.
Why do you say that? One plays first and the other DHes. One bats left, the other right. There is no redundancy and neither one of them is blocking anyone else.
The Cardinals already cleared up the redundancy at these positions when they traded Contreras.
I think having a full time DH limits the roster and what the manager can do with it. The Cardinals have tried to alleviate this problem by having Herrera catch two games a week but in my opinion that is a make believe solution. He really isn’t a catcher.
I mean I like Ivan Herrera a LOT and I might choose him over Burly if forced to choose. I am just saying that if we are truly trying to stockpile as much young talent as possible we should consider possible redundancies on our current roster. We have at least one black hole in the OF, if not two, and a major black hole at 3B. Those positions could be addressed by trading Burly or Herrera.
Cardinal wheeling and dealing has placed the Red Sox into serious post-season contention with both Contreras and Gray.
The Cardinals and Ollie have shown no interest in having a dedicated DH. They want to use the DH to give guys a break from the field, to give seldom used guys some PAs, and to work the matchup angles. Maybe what we are doing here is playing fantasy ball GM and trying to cram all bats into the lineup with no regard for anything else.
I was just thinking about trading Noot for a right handed bat to platoon Burly with. Than keep Burly. That works with the points that Brian makes about keeping both he and Herrera and GScottars point about the dh.
To me, Blaze Jordan is that right-handed bat that can platoon some with Burly, DH some, and play a little 3B. However, since we don’t have a real third baseman, he’s playing there regularly. That seems to be the player we should be looking for in a trade – an up and coming third baseman unless they think Jesus Baez will be ready by sometime next season.
That seems to be the player we should be looking for in a trade – an up and coming third baseman unless they think Jesus Baez will be ready by sometime next season
Bingo. But I think Baez needs a full year at aaa. A 1 year deal? Or maybe Blaze plays himself into being an option. Right now he is not. But they should give him the rest of the year playing everyday to try.
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