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I said:
What teams would trade a helpful player two weeks into the season?
bling said:
The answer is a team that wanted to swap its useful player for a different useful player. Like the Cards and Rays swapped Palacios for Kittredge.
I guess I missed that trade occurring two weeks into the season. I thought it happened back in early January. I must have a bad memory…
I can’t tell if you are advocating for a Burly trade or are just being contrary. I’d put the odds of a Burly trade in the next few weeks at approximately .00005%. Might be decent odds next January, though.
And frankly, what would the Cards get if they shopped Burleson?
Not much.
Other clubs can easily research his poor fielding slow base running inability to hit LH pitching and lack of power
His considerable poor MLB performance overshadows his success as a minor league player.
Prieto last season at AA and AAA –
.323/.367/.446/.813 in 123 games.Fermin last season at various minor league levels .214/.333/.427/.761 in 30 games.
Fermin may be hot after several games at Memphis this season, but Prieto is by far the superior hitter by 2023 and career stats.
The question posed was not whether it was likely Burleson would be traded in the next few weeks, so I did not address that. The question was what team would trade a helpful player two weeks into the seaaon, so I addressed the question asked.
Fringe type players do get traded in April sometimes. A year or two ago Riley O’Brien was traded in the middle of April. Substantial players can be moved in April now and then. The Cardinals swapped Andy Van Slyke for Tony Pena in April.
I only mentioned Palacios for Kittredge as a recent example of swapping a useful player without a spot in the lineup for something more useful to us. Not that I advocate trading another mid twenties outfielder for another mid thiries reliever. It’s easy to see why the Rays were all over that.
OK, but you are really stretching for examples during the early part of the season and found only questionable ones.
When O’Brien was traded, he was getting bumped off the roster and he had a whopping total of 1 1/3 career MLB innings. The 41st man on the roster is hardly apples-to-apples with Burleson, who is in his third partial MLB season. Van Slyke was traded eons ago, 37 years to be exact, and then, it was not during the season, but near the end of spring camp, a week prior to the start of the schedule.
To the subject at hand, I acknowledged the Burly trade chances now are not zero. Just close to it.
But, yes, at a time more conducive to trades, they might decide to deal him. My suggestion is that we revisit it then. It seems far too unlikely at this time to warrant consideration.
My long view take is that if he plays well enough to improve his trade value, they will probably want to keep him. And if he struggles, they use him like Baker as a Triple-A masher and bring him up to StL to fill gaps when needed. Until he is out of options, he can still be a useful player.
I consider Sosa as a possible parallel example. A useful guy who was not starting material but deserved to be on the 40-man roster. He was kept around for several years until they couldn’t send him down to Triple-A any more. And younger guys coming up could replace him. (They traded Sosa in July 2022, interestingly for a reliever.)
bccran said:
Fermin may be hot after several games at Memphis this season, but Prieto is by far the superior hitter by 2023 and career stats.
We get you like Prieto, but if minor league stats were fully dependable predictors, Baker and Burly would be NL All-Stars. This spring, the Cardinals sent Prieto down while Fermin was the very last cut. That is telling as to how they currently view the two infielders comparatively.
You also did not address either the 40-man roster or the more pressing question of why they would replace an outfielder with an infielder in the first place. Again, not likely to happen for multiple reasons.
We can watch Prieto and see if he continues to improve his standing. His Memphis debut last season was not all that noteworthy, but he looked better in camp. His time will come, but it isn’t likely to be soon.
Yes, Brian, I prefer both Prieto and Saggese over Fermin, at least offensively. I have to go on their stat slash lines at various levels. What else is there to go on? We can discount minor league stats to a certain extent, but I remember what Gary L.
said at WWU one year – “when a prospect reaches AA and AAA it’s time for him to perform and put some members up.” I have to agree with Gary.
And Saggese and Prieto have surely done that. Fermin has not.And as far as infielder vs. outfielder, I wouldn’t call up Prieto and send down Burleson until Noot comes back. Sorry I wasn’t clear about that.
40 man roster? IMHO there are several guys on the 40 man that could be dropped to make room for Prieto.
How about Rivas and King.There isn’t much fat on the 40-man roster anymore.
King is in the major leagues, so DFAing him would be surprising. Not sure who they would bring up to replace him. I guess it would have to be Robertson as the only other reliever on the roster not already with St. Louis. It would be shortsighted to weaken the relief corps depth just to add another infielder who really isn’t needed.
Rivas could declare free agency if DFAed again. The OF depth is thin enough already, though once everyone is healthy, that could be an option.
The Cards haven’t used Prieto at SS, which would help him from a versatility standpoint. Otherwise, he is just another 2B/3B in a system that is already overloaded with them. But Saggese is playing SS and is clearly a higher priority. I’d bet on Saggese getting a shot before Prieto. But if St. Louis’ need is relatively short term and is for a reserve infielder, Fermin (who does play SS) would get the call as he did in 2023.
King didn’t make the 26 man out of ST. He’s got some experience, but the results haven’t been there recently. As soon as Middleton and O’Brien come back, he’ll be sent back to Memphis. And then perhaps released if he’s ineffective again there.
Remember that King was ok after the trade last year but was sick during much of spring camp. Not being able to pitch really hurt his chances of making the team.
Looking ahead, sent down, yes, that is quite possible. On the other hand, I can’t imagine him being released any time soon.
Some excellent Cardinals baseball discussion without the mudslinging. How refreshing for a message board. Go Cards !
Brian – In 2022 for the Rangers, King gave up 61 hits in 51 1/3 innings and had a WHIP of 1.461. Only struck out 30 in those 51 1/3 innings. Last season, before the trade, he had an ERA of 5.79 for the Rangers. Gave up 26 hits in 18 2/3 innings and had a WHIP of 1.607. Only stuck out 10. Granted, when he came over to the Cards he had a 1.45 ERA in 18 2/3 innings, but he gave up 19 hits and struck out only 10. I just don’t think he’s a very gifted relief pitcher. Especially for an organization that’s trying to miss more bats with their pitching.
I am familiar with King’s stats. You highly value his results before the trade but diminish those after he became a Cardinal. Same pattern with Prieto, though his numbers were the opposite – far better elsewhere. The good news is that both should log a longer period of playing time this season in this organization.
The bottom line remains that King is not getting released (they’d send him down to the minors first) and Prieto isn’t coming up for the foreseeable future.
I may be wrong, but I always thought lefties (loogies) in the pen were brought in to get out lefty batters in high leverage situations. Hopefully getting the K(s). In 5 major league seasons, King has been in 108 major league games, pitched 145 2/3 innings, given up 161 hits, and only struck out 101. His career WHIP is 1.38. When I looked up those numbers after the Monty trade, I viewed him as more of a throw in. He turns 30 this Fall, didn’t make the 26 coming out of ST last month, and I just don’t see him remaining in the organization much longer. The Cards can do a lot better.
The new rules have pretty much eliminated the existence of the genuine loogy on a Big League roster.
Pathetic production for a DH vs the Marlins today. Good slap to LF but still only warning track power.
A huge, two out, 106+ mph, opposite field, go-ahead RBI hit by Burleson against the LHP. This is why it will be difficult for the Cardinals to send him down.
^^^^^
Burleson is hitting .190 with 2 RBI and 1 XBH on the season.
This is why he WILL be sent down if/when others are healthy. It will be a remarkably easy decision.
I guess Burly’s RBI hit was an added insurance RBI rather than a go ahead RBI. He seems to be seeing the ball much better than in San Diego. When he sees the pitches good, he’s much more comfortable and is a very good hitter.
AdM, the Cardinals seem to have a much higher opinion of Burleson as a hitter and teammate than you seem to. To each their own. We’ll see how this shakes out.
^^^^^^
My opinion means nothing.
Bottom line is Burleson is struggling to hit mlb pitchers for the third straight season.
Can he turn it around. I hope he does. It would help my team. But so far he’s essentially Pete Kozma or Pete Bourjos at the dish. And time is running out. He’s 25. It’s his third season. And no one in baseball cares what he hit in Spring Training.
I’ll be honest. He NEEDS to be sent down. He needs to have some sustained success at the plate. Right now he’s lost. Again. Like last season. And the season before.
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