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Gags, I’m viewing Pallante and Liberatore in long relief roles this season.
I’d like to see Thompson, Liberatore and Pallante compete for rotation openings in 2025, so they will need a strong IP base from 2024, if they earn those IP.
The thing that keeps Burleson from following the Yepez trajectory precisely is that he is a 2nd rounder rather than being the take for Matt Adams.
It could be argued who is worse than who defensively, but it doesn’t matter. For both of them, the need to hit enough to be useful is paramount. Yepez had 339 PA spread over two seasons with OPS+ 97. Burleson is at 400 PAs over two seasons with OPS+ 83, which is hugely worse than 97. Burly strikes out less but has shown less power. Neither gets on base enough, sporting low OBPs. The bottom line is they are more alike than different.
Once Burleon is out of options it will not be possible to carry him on the 40 man and keep him in the organization. His draft pedigree and lack of trade value may keep him around until then.
Without a doubt in my mind, having watched quite a bit of both of them, Burleson is a superior defender to Yepez in the outfield. Yepez is horrifically bad out there. Burleson is competent, but slow at getting to balls. Plus he has a good arm. I’m not in any way endorsing Burleson to be in our outfield, but I just saw comments above and wanted to make it clear that he is at least a lot better than Yepez in the outfield.
For the mathematical look:
OF D: Yepez=M.Adams=J.Martinez<Burleson
Thanks Cranny-
Things are well if busy, and at this age the busyness is experienced a bit different from when I started with this online Cards stuff so many years ago.
jj-
Could be. Odds are it’s King to AAA. But the long term need is going to be in the rotation, not the pen, I’d think. So I wonder if they’ll take steps toward that.
Brian-
Probably right re Edman. But if Carlson can get to an .800 OPS vs. righties, I’d think his OF time would rise considerably, and I’d think that would mean less Edman CF time than would be expected. Perhaps Edman 100 games in CF, Carlson 60, with Noot 130 in RF (and 10-15 as DH), Carlson 30, Walker 120 in RF (and 20-25 as DH) and Carlson 40, for around 130 Carlson starts. That has Edman with the most time in CF, but increases Carlson’s playing time. Before spring training, I figured Edman for 130-140 starts in CF, and Noot and Walker about 10 more starts than listed above. We’ll see. TL/DR: If Carlson is hitting a lot better he’s gonna play a lot more, and I’m encouraged by his spring.
Bling-
At just 25 and with just 2 seasons of minor league ball, I’m optimistic there is growth potential for Burleson. I’m intrigued by that 2022 OPS at Memphis. The Baseball Reference projection for 2024 puts him at .717 OPS. That’s the center of projections. If he’s on the high side of that projection he ends up a useful player.
I did plainly state that whatever the difference defensively, it doesn’t matter, because neither is going to carry a slot on an active roster unless they justify it with the bat.
Gags if you like Burly’s 2022 MiLb OPS you should like Yepez’s 2021 just as much. (He’s a year older).
Who needs Burleson when we have Matt Carpenter? Carpenter is going to get 400+ at bats this year because the front office failed to consider the possibility of injuries to starters.
Multiple posters have high hopes for Carlson. I hope you are right, but he has 1500 career plate appearances on the other side of his ledger. I am going with that until the time he can show sustained success. With Edman out indefinitely, Carlson has another prime chance.
But here’s the deal with Carlson.
He’s only 25. Same age as Burleson. And I’m old enough to remember the Cards giving up on guys like Bobby Tolan, Jose Cruz, and Andy Van Slyke only to see them eventually blossom on other teams.
Maybe Carlson fails us again this season? Or maybe he just wasn’t ready previously and now he is?
I think this season is his last shot in a Cardinal uni.
With both Edman and Nootbaar out it also gives Burleson a good opportunity for ABs. So far, both he and Carlson have capitalized on the opportunity. It will be interesting to see if Goldschmidt gets it going. It might not hurt for him to bat a little lower in the lineup until he doers.
I’ll say this, If Burleson doesn’t crush the ball during the Edman/Nootbaar absence, he’ll be in Memphis when they get back.
Carlson has value defensively & running the bases that Burleson does not. So in order to stay on the club, Burleson must excel with the bat.
With Edman out indefinitely, Carlson has another prime chance.
If Carlson is an automatic out vs righties, which would not be surprising, his “prime chance” could end whenever either Edman or Noot returns. Not that Noot is great in CF, but he is better there than some of our corner outfielders are at their positions, so I do not think it would be an impediment for a while.
I agree with Brian. Edman is the better CF and should play over Carlson when he returns. Even with less innings in CF, Edman showed much better range there than Carlson.
Carlson is fine while Edman is out, but I have always maintained that defensively, he is better in a corner position. He doesn’t have the speed or the range that Edman has.
Furthermore, Carlson has to show me he can hit from the left side consistently. Spring stats are meaningless. If he hits well consistently from the left side in the regular season, then I will reconsider my position.
For example, on Wednesday night, I saw Carlson hit a grand slam batting right handed. Good. Well, it was against Zach Davies, who was in Nats camp as an NRI. With a 9.00 ERA on the spring, Davies was then released.
When I think about spring stats, I think about the fact that Pete Kozma used to routinely finish spring training with an OPS of .900 or above.
I hope for the Cardinals’ sake that Carlson does hit better this season, since we don’t know about the health of either Edman or Nootbaar.
Thank goodness for those ST OPSs if they put Kozma in the batters box in the ninth vs Drew Storen in game 5 of the 2012 NLDS. One of the most thrilling moments in my many decades as a fan.
Outfielders need a glove. Getting no clear read on Edman’s prognosis/return from injury. Would hope his 2 year arb buyout is a signal that the team expects him to be on track sooner RTL.
Burleson is at at BEST a short term stop-gap (a couple of weeks) as an outfielder. If he mashes, he could DH, and be one of the numerous options as a back up 1B (Carp, Contreras, Donovan, Gorman, etc).
Burleson has hit well against Spring Training pitching. Still limited power.
Interesting comparison between Edman & Carlson.
Edman is considered by many to be a Golden Child while Carlson is a disappointment. But to date in their careers:
Carlson 99 OPS+
Edman 100 OPS+Now Edman will turn 29 in early May while Carlson will be 25 this entire season. So my feeling is simple, if Carlson can step up over what he’s done early in his career, he will be a superior outfielder than Edman. Then again, he MUST take that next step!
Albert, hitting data alone does not indicate who is a better outfielder. Suggest you look at WAR or similar, which is an example of a measure to encompass all that a player contributes.
But much of Edman’s WAR was accumulated at second or short. I’m judging him as an outfielder where I don’t see a strong arm at CF or much power for a CFer.
All statistical data and metrics can be informative and provide good guidelines as to a players value. But it can also be misleading. Especially WAR. If you dig a little it’s easy to find statistical comparisons where player a had better stats than player b. But player b was clearly superior. Specifically, WAR, like most stats, can’t measure intangibles. Really, nothing can. That’s why we have these discussions about who is better. With that said, I really appreciate the guys who take the time to put up the statistical arguments. I don’t have time, and I never dismiss them.
Edman is a really good IF/OF super UT. Carlson is a CF capable OF who dosn’t hit righties. It’s not like comparing a Cadillac and a Chevy. We are not going to have a Cadillac in the lineup and in CF either way. Its probably not going to add or subtract wins to any extent that will matter.
Frankly, as a hitter, Burleson looks about as ready for the MLB season as anybody on the team. And he hasn’t disappointed in LF. For now, he definitely needs to be somewhere in the lineup. Probably at 6 or 7. At least, against RHP. Anybody disagree?
Mr Shady I can’t agree nor disagree.
I neither panic nor throw parades based upon ST statistics. To date, Burleson has been a poor hitter who demonstrates very little power at the MLB level. I certainly hope that changes in 2024.
I’m definitely not impressed with Burleson’s speed, base running, or glove. But if he crushes baseballs once the season starts, he can find his way into the lineup. If he continues to be a Sub-100 OPS+ guy with little power, he’ll be out of baseball within a few seasons.
I’m rooting for all these kids to reach their full potential (Burleson, Carlson, Noots, Edman, Scott, etc), however history tells me that some will never do that. Unfortunately.
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