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BW – You stated an example of the Cardinals going big at $250 million for Stanton. That the Cardinals weren’t totally adverse to monster contracts. I said that was before they got both Ozuna and Goldy by trade. My belief is that they are now out of the running for a huge contract for Harper. That they are back to their original model of trying to extend existing players. Or go hard after exiting Cardinals (if they want them) if they choose FA.
bccran, I thought the current Harper situation is understood.
Onyx made a blanket statement that ownership is “scared” to take on large contract commitments. Rather than just telling him he is wrong, I cited prior examples which refute his position. He apparently doesn’t think teams should have spending limits, which is really easy to say when talking about other peoples’ money.
It is invalid to assume that just because the Cards apparently do not want to sign Harper now, that they do not want to make large contract commitments. It looks like they just don’t want this particular move at this time.
Hope that clarifies.
Bccran- I don
t think its obsessing to want the Cards to take the chance of getting a 26 potential cornerstone player who is just now in his mid 20s (26) who can provide solid offense and decent defense for years to come.Sure it will cost a lot but it will be a pre-emptive strike in case Goldy,Ozuna and poissibly Gyorko and Matt Carpenter leave after 2019 (Carp,Gyorko have options ).Besides there will likely be huge dollars off the payroll after this coming season.So any sting from a signing of Harper will be somewhat offset by the losing dollars of Goldy,Wacha,Ozuna etc;.I realize it is rare for the Cards to wade in the adults pool but sometimes when you have a opportunity to play in the adults pool and make a big splash that can very probably help you for years to come then you do it.I understand wading in the kiddie pool is not exciting but its the safe way to do things and some prefer the shallows and are happy watching the other teams take some risks.Even if Harper goes elsewhere the Cards still need to get another impact hitter and if not Free agency (Hell no to Brantley) all other FAs are over 30.Then you have to go the trade route and that costs prospects and likely some players.I am fine with trading Gyorko or JMartinez or even Carpenter for a real 3B.Freec agency only cost money.Trades cost players.So its pick your poison.It looks like the Cards have already “picked their poison”. This appears to be the core team for 2019, which is already a much more competitive team than in 2018, with more moves to come.
They certainly know they will have to again go into the market (trade/free agent) next winter for more offense (assuming they do not do any pre-free agency extensions). Apparently they are less worried about that likelihood than many readers here.
I’m not worried about next winter at all. We could have upwards of $70M coming off the books so there will be payroll space to do whatever we want.
As for 2019 I think at this point Harper would be a luxury not a necessity. I think our offense will be fine now that we have Goldy so we need to focus on upgrading the bullpen. I wouldn’t be opposed to making a move for a rotation ace also.
I am not worried at all. It is short-sighted IMO to pass up a free agent at 26. He is coming what should be his most productive years. But they picked their poison and that’s IMO a mistake. If you can spare me the Harper is not that good discussion as I said before he at his age he is worth the risk.
That is likely so Brian-IMHO its a huge mistake because its based on hoping Fowler can rebound and Carpenter can play 3B adequately.I doubt both possibilities.Rag armed 3B do not make for good defense along with horsecrap RF (Fowler).So right now the Cards have bought a fancy new bowtie and put it on a pig.It might be a pretty new tie but its still put on a pig.Unless the FO pulls a monster good trade or two in vegas its still just a pig.
Carp may have a weak arm but he gets the job done at 3B and doesn’t make many errors. Our RF situation is looking no worse for 2019 than it was for the 2018 team that won 88 games. The difference is that we have now upgraded 1B so much that we could easily be projected as a 90+ win team if we upgrade the pen. I’m not sure why that is such a gloomy outlook.
Thanks for the clarification, BW.
As we’ve discussed before, the normal Cards model has been to see how players fit in with teammates, field management, the FO, fans, etc. before making a long term commitment to them. It always worked will for them. Ala Holliday. Then they got away from it a bit with Peralta, Leake, Cecil, and especially Fowler. They learned their lesson.
Now it’s back to normal with Ozuna and Goldy. It will be interesting to see what they do at the end of this season with those two. Or maybe even during it.But since there is just about zero interest in Harper now, the discussions for 2019 should be interesting around the bullpen, backup catcher, and LH bench bat. You’re right, those are the meaningful discussions to be had right now.
As long as its okay to have “meaningful” discussions I will talk about whatever I want and about whatever player I want and how said players could fit with the Cards.Those are meaningful topics to me and apparently some others.
52 – The Cards won 88 games last year with DeJong out for 6 weeks,
Bader only playing a partial year,
O’Neill only having 142 plate appearances, and a bullpen that was atrocious. Now we’ve added one of the best hitters in the NL, guys like Hicks, Hudson, Brebbia, Ponce, etc. have gained valuable experience in the pen and you’re still all doom and gloom. And we we’ll pick up several pen arms before ST. Time for a new look at things maybe?Bccran- I love the Cardinals and have for close to 60 years.Yes several kids got valuable experience and the injury bug took a big bite out of the Cards butt last season.I like Goldy and am a big fan of O`Neill,Hicks,DeJong,Gomber,Bader and Hudson.Its not doom and gloom …its just I hate seeing a real possibility for the Cards to really boost the team with Harper (we will continue to disagree on him) and take a bigger step up to get ahead of the Cubs,Brewers etc;.Its like Cards are putting too much hope into Carp being able to play 3B adequately before he blows out his shoulder again,hoping Fowler can return to his usual mediocre status and that none of the young kids have downturns like Luke Weaver did last season.
That’s a lot of hoping.Now if the FO/MO makes a couple of solid deals /signings and improves the team then my view could change.I am waiting to be impressed by them.I fail to see the doom and gloom. I do see those of us who wanted Harper express their failure to take a chance on him as short-sighted. There is no doubt that the 2019 team is already better than the 2018 edition.
Who to believe?
Heyman says this:
The Cardinals seemed to be considering a run at Bryce Harper, and that may not have changed even after the acquisition of Paul Goldschmidt. Three straight years missing the playoffs has made them determined to improve the team. Should they accomplish that, that would be a superteam …
https://fancredsports.com/articles/inside-baseball-mlb-notes-dodgers-have-look-of-s
NJ, in all fairness, there is plenty of gloom and doom on this thread. Just this morning, Onyx labeled them a third-place team. Bw52 called the team a pig. Plenty of rhetoric being thrown around as people vent.
Wacha and Cmart missed significant time also. Imagine if they are our best two SP’s in 19’….. Flaherty becomes a SP4….. That’s a FINE rotation
Ultimately, whether Harper makes sense or not depends on how much he signs for.
3 Years, $120 million, DeWitt should do it (if he wants a super team to compete with the Red Sox, Astros, etc).
10 years, $300 million. DeWitt won’t do it, as he doesn’t believe in those contracts.
And if Harper has to settle for three years, $120 million, it could take until March to get there. It also could put more teams in the mix for him. Boras wants a record contract, though, and will wait as long as he can to try to get it. It will be interesting to see if he ends up back with the Nats, the team that offered 10/$300 MM already, and were turned down.
People who think the Cards could waltz in and sign Harper are badly oversimplifying a process they do not control.
Rotation is strong, we scored just about the same amount of runs as the Cubs and Brewers last year and should have a much improved offense in 2019, and the bullpen is much improved already. We’re already in the division hunt and there’s still plenty of off season to go.
Since when has Wacha stayed healthy a full season?What if CMartinez `s 10 cent head dereails his million dollar arm and he gets hurt again or Mikolas regresses?The odds of all that happening should be rare but after 2018 season nothing would surprise me.Who would have figured Luke Weaver to completely have the wheels fall off or Greg Holland to have the worst partial season of his career?Pitching is always a guess because the unexpected can always rear vup and bite you in the butt when you least expect it.
About a month ago, I think it was USA Today, suggested Harper should go year-to-year to maximize his earnings.
He could seek a ten year deal, in which there are only 3 real players for his services, or he could seek a one year deal at a record AAV, in which up to 20 teams would be in the market for his services.
Supply and demand.
That makes logical sense, but I think Boras’ ego cannot be underestimated. I bet he wants it all in one fell swoop. The biggest total deal ever, not the highest salary for one year.
As I mentioned above, the Nats already offered 10/$300. There will surely be more and better offers, likely with outs that could enable Harper to earn even more later.
CMartinez-injured part 2018
Wacha -injured part 2018 chronic injury problem
Mikolas-surprised everyone all season.Will he do it again?
Gant-versatile swingman
Gomber-swingman-flashwell in some starts…others ?
Hudson-never started MLB game
Flaherty-solid young arm
Poncedeleon-had limited action but did well
Helsley0 injured ,likely AAA again
Geneisis Cabrera-little LHP only had a couplke weeks at AAA,moving to bullpen?
Wainwrigt-ghost in the shella lot of options and good potential but sure things…no.
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