2024 Rotation

The answer to pitching is how the Cardinals used to do it.

Keep the farm stocked with possibilities – some will pan out and some won’t but not having any arms on the farm is ….. well exactly what we’ve all seen the last 3-4 years.

As has been pointed out, today’s empty pitching cupboard can be traced directly back to the change in draft philosophy as in – how the Cards chose to use their higher draft picks.

So here is the question: do we think it is easier to acquire pitching or hitting via the trade and free agency? What is the scarcer resource?

When you answer that question then you have also answered how to (generally) structure your draft priorities.

I doubt Monty will sign with the Cards. He will get better offers from the Mets and Rangers

I wonder if the three pitchers comment could relate to the Japanese 35 year old starter, 25 year old starter, and 27 year old lefty reliever? That would be quite a splash. We would have to clear budget through non-tenders and trades, but it would transform the team.

Monty’s age, next year will be his age 31 season, would be ideal as far as the length of contract top pitchers want these days. I hope Mo doesn’t go overboard signing pitchers who will be pulling down a lot of payroll too much past 35, 36 max. We are just not a team that will eat $20M a year for a couple year if a guy flames out.

gscottar:

I agree but if we trade for GOOD pitchers we’ll lose Nootbar, Gorman, Burleson, Donovan and Edman. Yuck

I’m focused on what needs to happen to right the ship for 2024 and, more importantly, beyond. Hindsight is great for judging trades and signings. But it’s useless for moving forward. So far a lot of different scenarios have been thrown out. I like those that don’t involve us giving up draft picks. If you want to spend big, sign Yosh Yammomoto. Young with all the perephials. If the cost is comparable to Snell or Nola, that’s the way I go. Can you afford Montgomery? Pitcher #2. Than trade for a 3ish kind of guy that doesn’t require Noot Donovan Gorman Walker or Winn in return. If Bill shops off of the bargain isle and we have a similar failure to 2023, the risk of losing more of his fan base and revenue is much greater. Following thru with the public statement they made of bringing in 3 outside starting pitchers should energize the fan base as long as they aren’t skeptical of the level of commitment. In this scenario, Mo just needs to figure out the trade for that 3rd guy. Than we keep our young core, and can focus on developing our pitching thru our system. To me that’s the real end game. I want 1) Those 2 high draft picks in the 2024 draft 2) I want to keep our young core. Bills going to have to go way beyond his comfort level for at least 2024 in team payroll if he wants to compete for a championship. That will be the tell whether he’s sincere or just giving lip service to sell tickets.

If we don’t have the ability to outbid teams for Monty then how could we expect to outbid teams for Nola, Snell, or Gray? Not likely

Agreed. And Montgomery is preferable because he will not have a QO attached.

Regardless, I would prefer to trade for guys on current short term deals or still in arbitration that you wouldn’t have to gut the lineup for

Trading for starters might be preferable, but they also have to build a bullpen. Their approach to signing relievers is terrible. That’s why I believe it is better to sign FA starters and trade for stud relievers.

Mo or any analytic dept would not have endorsed the 2023 pitching staff last winter.

I think you meant to say a good analytic department. I absolutely think Mo and the gang were convinced that the pitchers they had developed and acquired were sufficient. Some sort of deep metrics analysis and statistical modeling, possibly thrown further off by a failure to understand and factor in the effect of the shift ban and other rules evolutions, led them to the brink of a cliff.

FO malfeasance in not having a plan for the replacement of Yadi, at the same time as working in a new and inexperienced pitching coach, while most of the rotation and some of the pen were not even there, sent the whole thing over the edge in spectacular fashion, with the whole fiasco amplified and advertised by bungles like hustlegate and catchergate.

I think that if Mo had not signed Contreras, he would have done nothing at all. The pitching still would have been a disaster as would in game management. As to the latter, that audio clip at the beginning of the Good Stuff thread gives some examples of how hapless Marmol is when it comes to in game tactical situations.