- This topic has 851 replies, 46 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 11 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
“gscottar:
I agree but if we trade for GOOD pitchers we’ll lose Nootbar, Gorman, Burleson, Donovan and Edman. Yuck.”While the definition of “good” pitcher is of course subjective, I would be satisfied if the Cards traded for Dylan Cease and Kyle Freeland, plus made one major free agent signing. And going by the Baseball Trade Values website, they can probably acquire Freeland & Cease for a combo of Gorman, Carlson, Burleson, Victor Scott II, Graceffo or Roby, Bernal or Crooks, and Contreras or Herrera. In other words, they could hold onto Noot, Donovan, and Edman, and the Opening Day lineup would be:
Nootbaar CF
Donovan DH
Goldy 1B
Arenado 3B
Walker RF
O’Neill LF
Catcher
Edman 2B
Winn SSBest infield defense in the sport, and a fairly potent lineup.
“I like those that don’t involve us giving up draft picks. If you want to spend big, sign Yosh Yamamoto. Young with all the peripherals. If the cost is comparable to Snell or Nola, that’s the way I go.”
This is the smartest thing anyone has written on any baseball website since the internet was invented. Thank you, KCB.
I agree but if we trade for GOOD pitchers we’ll lose Nootbar, Gorman, Burleson, Donovan and Edman. Yuck
Not if the pitchers only have one year remaining on their deal, which lowers the cost.
Nola and Snell will want 6 yrs/$180M. I would not do that.
Gray will want 5 yrs/$100M. I would not do that.
I would do 5 yrs/$100M for Monty then trade for a couple of pitchers that have one year remaining or someone who is in arbitration.
And as has been mentioned I am not signing a FA pitcher who has declined the QO, which will be Nola, Gray, and Snell most likely. Monty won’t be eligible for the QO.
Bob Reed, nothing says the other team wants/needs those guys. They would have a specific need they want to fill.
Sounds to me like we are screwed.
Unless some of the younger guys come through like we don’t expect.
If not, sounds to me like we are screwed.
“Bob Reed, nothing says the other team wants/needs those guys. They would have a specific need they want to fill.”
As for the first point, I’ll grant you that. No guarantees. But the Sox and Rox were both terrible this year, Bling. I strongly suspect they are looking to add a fistful of talent at both the major and minor league levels any way they can. Rotten teams rarely have specific needs.
At any rate, look at the talent amalgam I’m talking about trading away. Pitching, catching, outfield, infield. Speed, power. Quality, quantity, and variety.
Anyway, I don’t know exactly who the Cards will give or get — but the broad point I was attempting to make was that our surplus of talent at both the MLB and minor league levels should be, mathematically, plenty enough to acquire a pair of good starting pitchers. Maybe Cease, maybe not. Maybe Freeland, or maybe not. But someone. Or some two, that is. Without surrendering Noot or Donovan or Edman or Walker or Winn, etc.
At this point, I would be open to trading Tink Hence in the right deal. Someone would need to convince me why we shouldn’t for a young, cost-controlled probable ace. He hasn’t thrown 100 innings in any season, yet. He will be 21 for most of the 2024 season but will turn 22 in August and will probably be in AA for most of 2024.
As of right now Hence strikes me as similar to Liberatore in that he looked like a world beater in A level ball but ran into trouble once beyond that. Countless pitchers have followed that trac. The Marlins understood the long odds, no matter how good an A level guy looks, and they sold high. There was interest in Hence when he was at A ball, but we decided to take the long odds rather than cashing in. Now we would be selling low. At this point, I would rather hang on a couple years and see if the bet pays off.
blingboy said:
There was interest in Hence when he was at A ball, but we decided to take the long odds rather than cashing in. Now we would be selling low.
This is a very interesting assertion on your part. However, again, you make the incorrect assumption that your (negative) opinion is the prevailing one.
Let’s take MLB.com, which is among those who updated their national top 100’s late in the season. Currently, Hence is #42 at MLB. He was their #77 in March.
At Baseball America, Hence was #47 in March. He is #26 in their national top 100 today.
This trend is precisely the opposite of your opinion. But if you know something else, please share the report from any evaluator who is now down on Hence, because I haven’t seen it.
Only because Winn fell just short of 130 at-bats is Hence not the Cardinals consensus #1 prospect.
My suggestion remains that if you actually aim before you fire, you might hit something now and then… 😉
I suspect we had a similar discussion about Liberatore at some time in the past. Hopefully Hence will have greater success. If he is still here.
“Without surrendering Noot or Donovan or Edman or Walker or Winn, etc.”
Keeping those players becomes easier if SP1 & 2 bring recent strong IP and effectiveness from free agency. We could still do secondary trades, but FA spending is needed to preserve the trade capitol above.
If 2 FAs to top the rotation is indeed what Cardinals try to do, then Mo will probably try to make the two big FA deals sooner rather than later. That likely excludes players like Monty, whose agent is known for advising his clients to wait until late.
There are plenty of teams that would offer Monty more than 5/100. Boras will see to that.
Sure he might do better than 5/100 but that would be a solid baseline offer. The top LH free agent starter last year, Carlos Rodon, got 6/162 and I don’t think Monty will touch that.
This is from VEB today
Definitely in the market for a starterDiamondbacks, Dodgers, Phillies, Tigers, Twins, Cards
Some might say “duh” but this is our competition. We are just one of six…. so thinking that we have our choice of Nola, Snell etc. if the price is right. With all the other bidders that seems unlikely. I don’t expect to see a top of the line #1 starter in our rotation in ’24. I hope that Mozeliak is on the phone sniffing out some Ps that will get us out of the cellar ’24 predictions of the ‘experts”. And that is not a slam dunk either.
Good point, Ny. Of them, the Dodgers and Phils are big spenders. The D-backs, Tigers and Twins are more conservative like the Cardinals, but maybe Arizona will increase payroll now they are in the final four.
maybe Arizona will increase payroll now they are in the final four
They are competitive with their current payroll. Why would ownership want to increase it?
Here is my take, bling. A team that comes close but falls short might want to make an additional investment to try to get to the very top. The D-backs are in a challenging division with the free-spending Padres and Dodgers and the always-competitive Giants.
If I recall, their payroll this season was short of $120 million, so they would have a lot of room to spend more if they chose. In my assessment, they could use pitching, which is why they were called out in the original referenced article as being a potential challenger of the Cardinals in the free agent market.
On the other hand, if the DeWitts owned the Snakes, then I could see your point… 😉
Kyle Freeland is high on my list too. He has an underwater contract and would be a great fit. Likewise, Quintana from the Mets. I don’t see the NY Mets in on anyone other than Yamamoto as they said they are building toward 2025.
You add those two to Imanaga or Clevinger and I like our rotation. Not quite like getting Snell or Nola, but a much better built rotation.
Note #STLCards OF Lars Nootbaar at the Pacific League playoffs in Japan. He is wearing an Orix Buffaloes jersey. That just happens to be the team of his friend and soon-to-be free agent Yoshinobu Yamamoto. Not exactly a Taylor Swift-class sighting, but still interesting… https://t.co/KoGf5gapF7
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) October 18, 2023
Yamamoto would be in for a real culture shock. His team has a record of 86-53, 33 games over .500, and are in first place with a gap of 15.5 games over the second place team.
Nola with a game score of 73 last night. He’s at 3-0 this postseason. Back up the truck for that guy.
Anyone seen any estimates on his FA contract?
8/200mil+ ??Nola wasn’t great during the regular season, but his October is making him a bunch of money. I’d think he’s going to get a contract of 5-7 years and $150-200M at this point, which is sort of what he was looking at before the season. He does seem like a Cardinal sort of pitcher but it’s hard to see us wading into the deep end on years or overall $$. But perhaps we will be surprised.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.